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Georgetown-Syracuse: One Night Only (Maybe)

This is it, boys and girls. It's the night of nights, and it's only happening once this season.* Drink it in and let the disdain coat your gullet like a smooth single-malt after a long day of watching your kid run around the soccer field for six hours without -- somehow -- ever touching the ball.

The Syracuse-Georgetown rivalry is something special, arguably one of the best traditions up on The Hill. It was the basis of the Big East and catapulted it -- along with the two schools -- to a level of prominence that is hard to match. What makes it so special is that the rivalry isn't defined like other collegiate ones: There isn't the presence of geography like Cincinnati-Xavier; there isn't the presence of incenstual privilege like Harvard-Yale; there isn't philosophical non-basketball related underpinnings like Kansas-Missouri (which is basically the coolest story ever).

Simply, for Orange-Hoyas, there was a flash point: John Thompson, Jr. shooting off his mouth, "officially" closing Manley Field House, and putting an end to Syracuse's 57-game home winning streak. From there, it was almost 20 years of the two teams beating the hell out of each other. You had Pearl Washington and Patrick Ewing trading blows, Michael Graham -- still Chief Punk at the Punk and Goon Academy -- tossing his fists at Andre Hawkins and the referees looking the other way, Jim Boeheim losing his mind in the postgame press conference after that Hawkins-Graham game and saying that, despite the lights on the scoreboard, that "the better team didn't win."

There was McNamara with a dagger three at the end of a wild game down at Verizon Center. And Greg Monroe ruining Syracuse's chances at a national championship in a freak encounter with Arinze Onuaku in the Big East Tournament. There was John Thompson, Jr. berating the referees up in the Carrier Dome, taking two technical fouls, and giving Syracuse all the momentum it would need to pull out an important Big East home game in which it had no business winning before "Big John" got mouthy. It's "Your Mom's a Hoya" t-shirts and "Go For the Bronze" apparel. It's Lee Suggs eliminating Syracuse in the 2000 Big East Tournament -- where Syracuse was the one-seed and Georgetown a meandering eight -- on a Thursday at noon.

In short, that flash point down on Comstock and East Colvin gave us some of the greatest Syracuse games ever and, most importantly, made this rivalry personal. When push comes to shove, that's what makes Syracuse-Georgetown such a great collegiate rivalry: it's personal. It's just not the games; it's the actors in the game. That's what helps Orange-Hoyas push past those things, like geography, that usually dominate the foundation of rivalries.

We hate Georgetown; Georgetown hates us. Throw in 30 years of bad blood and you have a really screwed up relationship.

Now, I know there's a growing faction that thinks that Georgetown-Syracuse isn't what it used to be or that it's a dead rivalry. My gut is telling me two things:

  1. This is coming from the Esherick Generation which, when coinciding with Connecticut's push to basketball dominance, is leading some Syracuse fans to identify more with the Huskies as a primary rival than the Hoyas.
  2. You have a pro sports mentality and history means nothing; it's the flavor of the week that interests you and you look solely to competitive equality as a basis for a rivalry than those beautiful things that comprise a collegiate rivalry.

I'm not going to hold a gun to your head and tell you that you need to hate Georgetown above all else. I'm not the rivalry police; I have much better things to do with my time (like not be the rivalry police). All I'm saying is that to offer your disdain -- your precious, limited hate -- to only those schools that you perceive as a competitive equal or superior smacks of missing the point of college basketball.

Sure, there needs to be some competitive balance or else a rivalry is tough to maintain. (Unless, of course, you're Clemson-South Carolina. Then, though, you're sitting in the south and if you don't hate your rival 365 days a year regardless of competitive balance, your hobbies become limited to putting straw in your mouth and sitting on the porch.) Esherick, admittedly, almost killed Georgetown-Syracuse with his mustache and complete incompetence at running a college basketball program. But to simply ignore 30 years of history -- excuse me, 30 years of the most personal basketball history that you can have -- just to stick it to Jamie Dixon or Rick Pitino . . . you're talking nonsense.

So, go ahead and hate Connecticut and Louisville and Pittsburgh and Villanova. That's fine, I can see that. Just don't put it ahead of Georgetown. (You know, like John Marinatto did. Do you really want to associate yourself with the logic of John Marinatto? I didn't think so.)

I'm going to miss this when Syracuse is clubbing glass jaws in the ACC.

* Big East Tournament and NCAA Tournament possibilities aside. Even then, there's a good chance that John Marinatto will find a way to keep Syracuse from playing Georgetown in Madison Square Garden. With respect to the latter scenario, Georgetown will continue to fail to get out of the first round, making that rematch possibility approach zero percent.

After the jump, some selected items from Hoya Suxa over the last week.

Star-divide

020812_medium

From 02.08.12 Week at Hoya Suxa
These are listed from most-recent to least-recent. That's not so much a story as it is a fact.

* * * * *

Important Georgetown-Syracuse Information: A Flowchart for Sound Decision-Making
It's pretty self-explanatory, really.

The Bet: Georgetown-Syracuse 2012
The terms of the traditional wager between Casual Hoya and Hoya Suxa.

Heartbreaking Microscopic Georgetown Stories
Five itty-bitty stories that will make your heart melt to your toes.

"Aw, Hell": The John Thompson, Jr. Story -- An Autobiography
The table of contents to "Big John's" autobiography.

Nate Lubick's Basketball GPS
Georgetown's starting power forward -- as of this writing -- has a bit of a tough time navigating the Big East's roadways.

Hoya Suxa How-To: Anesthetize a Hoya
Dr. Suxa provides a step-by-step approach to putting a Hoya to sleep.

Things Georgetown Graduates Dread Hearing
This stuff will really sour a Hoyas' day. (And, if we're lucky, the rest of their lives.)

Excerpts From "The Real Girlfriends of Georgetown University"
Those broads down on The Hilltop sure like to flap their yaps and let their true feelings fly.

I Have a Terrible Medical Condition!
Did you know that John Thompson, III has a terrible medical condition? Well, he does and he finally tells the world of his horrible secret.

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well said

Growing up near Syracuse, there was G’town, and there was everyone else. I vote for a once a year game the week before the super bowl. Rotate between Syracuse, DC and the Garden.

This can happen.

by SJ on Feb 8, 2012 11:59 AM EST reply actions  

On this we agree

I absolutely love to hate you guys.

Why so Syracuse?

by HoyaJoker07 on Feb 8, 2012 12:18 PM EST reply actions  

Aw, c'mon Glaude

You can’t talk about GMac’s dagger 3 without a video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu2gsUD9f7g

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

by wildcatlh on Feb 8, 2012 12:21 PM EST reply actions  

That was the first Big East game I attended as a student...

I hated Syracuse because of that single moment, long before I realized there was (at that point) 25 years worth of other animosity to validate my loathing. Thanks for the refresher, though!

by Hoya Saxual on Feb 8, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm willing to hate UNC

and Duke and Maryland as much as possible, but I doubt the hate will grow anywhere near Georgetown level. And really, it shouldn’t. I can’t even wear gray sweats.

Utahns for Orange

by coffeeshark on Feb 8, 2012 12:39 PM EST reply actions  

Having been around since the infancy of the Big East

Georgetown will always be 1, 1A, 1B, 1C all the way down to 1ZZZ on the hate list. Hate ’em, in the collegiate sporting sense.

I can get putting UConn and Louisville high up on the list. I’d rather chew glass that help Jim Calhoun if I found him on the side of the road, and Pitino is a greasy sleezbag of the first order. I’ve never had much animosity towards Pitt, although the fact that they’ve had ’Cuse’s number for a while has been a source of constant irritation.

The only school I’d consider putting on par with Georgetown is Kentucky. I can’t stand the smug self entitled attitude of UK fans and their should be serious research dollars being pumped into finding a cure or vaccination or something for John Calipari. I have trouble sleeping some nights knowing he’s on the same planet as me.

As for the ACC, bring on the Duke Hate. I has it, but it’s a healthy hate, unlike those hates reserved for malingering low lifes that have to look up at earthworms.

*No Hyperboles were injured in the typing of this post.

We will not rest until we see these capitalist octopuses annihilated.

-Che Marrone

by jpb531 on Feb 8, 2012 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

the unsaid part

of leaving the big east, leaving the cool road trips in big city arenas for small southern towns counting the days until spring football starts.

We lose DC, NYC, Milwaukee, Chicago and Philly and gain Boston and Raleigh.

This is not even close to equitable. I will never forgive college football for ruining all future winters.

by SJ on Feb 8, 2012 12:51 PM EST reply actions  

We aren't losing DC or NYC

We’ll be at MSG plenty, especially for the ACC tournament in a few years. UMD is right next to DC. Milwaukee, Chicago and Philly can be replaced by Boston, Raleigh-Durham, the Piedmont triad, Atlanta and Miami. I don’t think that’s a bad trade-off at all.

by cuse2012 on Feb 8, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

There's some good ACC destinations, no doubt

But for someone who’s in NY, anything south of DC becomes much more of a hassle travel wise. I could drive to most BE schools in 6 hours or less if I wanted to. ACC? Not so much…

We will not rest until we see these capitalist octopuses annihilated.

-Che Marrone

by jpb531 on Feb 8, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Chicago

Everyone flies into chicago, direct. And milwaukee is 45 minutes away from Chicago

by SJ on Feb 8, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Because Delta doesn't make everyone fly to Atlanta regardless of where they're going

Delta and AirTran have hubs in Atlanta, and Continental/United has nonstops from Newark and DC. American has a hub in Miami and everyone flies either there or Fort Lauderdale. Please with all of this. Why does everyone need to cherry pick info when it comes to the ACC move?

by cuse2012 on Feb 8, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Alumni base

Is there a large alumni base in any of those towns? Georgia Tech seats about 8K right? Can Syracuse take over any of those arenas? Maryland is the largest, but they are a pretty tough get for Duke and Carolina. Are they be difficult for a premium game?

Sure, Syracuse can take over Miami, but thats hardly even a college basketball arena. Its empty, all the time.

Also, what the hell is a Piedmont triad?

by SJ on Feb 8, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Triad

Raleigh, Greensboro, Winston-Salem

"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes

by FeloniousPhunk on Feb 8, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

The Triad is Greensboro, Winston-Salem, High Point (Wake Forest)

Raleigh is part of the Research Triangle with Durham and Chapel Hill (UNC, Duke, and NC State)

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

by wildcatlh on Feb 8, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

?

Greensboro, Winston Salem and High Point is being used as a pro ACC point?

by SJ on Feb 8, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I would say our alumni base is as big in Boston as it is in Philly. Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Palm Beach is probably around the same as Chicago. Atlanta must have more than Milwaukee. I fail to see how we aren’t getting an even trade. We aren’t going from the biggest city in the world every place to backwards hick towns. We don’t take over West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati, etc.

So taking over Miami doesn’t count because it’s always empty? How often is MSG, the Verizon Center, etc. full for St. John’s or Georgetown? Shit, the Prudential Center curtains off over half of the arena for Seton Hall, and they still only sell out when we play there. But Miami is the one with an attendance issue?

Again, why does everyone need to cherry pick info when it comes to the ACC move? It’s like all of the “you’re replacing Georgetown and UConn with Clemson and Georgia Tech!” morons. Because UNC, Duke, BC, Maryland, Pitt, etc. don’t exist. Only Clemson and GT do. It’s as dumb as boasting about going to the ACC because we replace DePaul and Seton Hall with Duke and UNC. And with the being the third wheel in the Duke/UNC thing, give me a break. How many Big East teams look at us as their big rival? 5? 6? =

by cuse2012 on Feb 8, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Milwaukee/Chicago

Milwaukee and Chicago are basically the same alumni base. SU of Chicago puts on the Marquette meet ups.

The road trips for SU fans just aren’t the same. Regardless, we can smile and pretend they are the same, but they aren’t. Was it inevitable? Absolutely. This is still a terrible, terrible thing for Syracuse basketball, and college basketball in general.

As an aside, Anyone know if BC will play us in their on campus arena? Or in the new Garden or whatever it is called?

by SJ on Feb 8, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Milwaukee and Chicago can be the same

But the DC alumni won’t go to Maryland and UVA, the Atlanta/Charlotte people won’t go to Clemson, etc.? Like I’ve been saying, the ACC is being transformed into more than just a southern conference, while the Big East is now mostly in far flung places that aren’t even in the same time zone as us and/or in places that don’t even have a winter.

Going to Maryland instead of Georgetown might not be the same but other than that is playing at DePaul or even Louisville “classic Big East”?

I just don’t get why so many of these complaints act like it’s 1995. The Big East isn’t even close to being a solely northeastern conference now. All of this was inevitable. The Big East everyone wants to believe in is dead.

As for the BC thing, that’s a good question. I did notice Georgia Tech moved their game against Duke to Phillips Arena, not sure if that’s the first time they’ve done that or not. If BC were to do something like that, I think we’d be the prime targets to do it against. It’d be something highly beneficial for them, I’d think.

by cuse2012 on Feb 8, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

See..

If Syracuse would be at the Phillips Arena, I think that moves the Atlanta road trip into a positive development. And its not that playing at DePaul is a “classic” road trip, its that Syracuse fans can get there, and get tickets. It is a very attractive road option.

by SJ on Feb 8, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

We have a decent presence in the ATL. Tech is getting a new arena soon.

by Dan Lyons on Feb 8, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

There’s Atlanta too

by twang84 on Feb 8, 2012 1:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

You beat me, and had more info…

by twang84 on Feb 8, 2012 1:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I grew up in the said "Esherick Generation"

To me and my cohorts, UCONN is our primary rival. Sorry. G’Town is like Nova, good small catholic school with title contending teams every so often. They had great teams back in the stone age but are less relevant today.

And I think I just rained on the parade.

G-Mac bitches

BC 2011

by jdguggs10 on Feb 8, 2012 1:53 PM EST reply actions  

Glaude

That bet seems kinda one-sided. It seems like you lose more with us losing than they lose with us winning. Then again, they did go to georgetown, so they lose on a daily basis.

Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won 10 f-- games, not 10

by PoetryInMoten on Feb 8, 2012 1:54 PM EST reply actions  

Not so much.

Only Glaude loses if SU loses, our whole blog community loses if GU loses. I’m not downplaying how much Glaude would hate to do it, but our side of the wager is regularly decried in the comments as “too much.” We love our Casual Awards.

Why so Syracuse?

by HoyaJoker07 on Feb 8, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Syracuse is favored

Glaude has to put up more to make it an even bet.

by tommyt330 on Feb 8, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

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