I went to Syracuse on Feb. 10 and I had a really good time there. Their fans were great, and I spent a lot of time with the coaches and the players. When I first got there I met up with coach Jim Boeheim in the Carmelo Anthony Center and we had a good talk. He talked to me about how he would use me in their system and things like that.
I did notice that Coach Cal’s and Coach Boeheim’s recruiting styles are very different. Coach Boeheim is way more laid back. He lets you know that he wants you, but he doesn’t press it too much. Coach Cal tells you everything about how he’ll use you, where you’ll fit in, everything."
Nerlens Noel on his recruiting trip to Syracuse and the difference between Boeheim and Calipari's recruiting styles.
3 months ago
Sean Keeley
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I think this decision comes down to Fab
and whether or not he bolts to the league. Its hard to beat Calipari in a recruiting battle. The upside of going to Syracuse is you know what you’re getting and what type of team you will play for. In my opinion UK remains a mystery team to me in the pre-season because so much is based on freshmen potential. I wasn’t a believer in UK this year until they started playing and winning, but you never know with teams that bring in so much new talent each year. Thats the difference with SU, next year we will bring back a solid core of players comfortable with the system. And hopefully Nerlens will see that, and know that if he works hard he will play if he can get the job done.
Cuse fan in ACC country.
I don't envy this kid having to make this choice.
One thing that seems to get lost in all this is academics. What school will secure you a future beyond basketball if pro dreams aren’t realized? It’s always refreshing to hear recruits talk about academic programs as well as athletic programs.
These comments seem to get at the same thing that Boeheim article from last week talked about:
Beoheim recognizes that his players are adults and treats them as such. He doesn’t smother them or try to protect them from themselves. That’s not to say he won’t discipline when discipline is needed, but he doesn’t coddle.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
That's right!
Do your job, or ride the pine.
Born in '87, Orange fan since '86
by StealthTurkey on Feb 20, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think thats the thing these hot recruits like to hear least
I can see Coach Cal saying “Come right in! We will start you immediately! you will be great! you will start right away!” – is that true? Maybe, maybe not.
I cant see Boeheim saying that, and see him being very honest with his recruits. Shine off the bench, and get a starting spot, but no guarantees – cause I haven’t seen you play college level talent yet.
Seems like Christmas got a guarantee
And Fab for the better part of last season. I am guessing he will stop guaranteeing starting spots, its been weird the past couple of years to have someone start and play 2-3 minutes.
I don't feel the same way...
I think JB started Fab last year to get his feet wet. If he rode the pine all of last year maybe he wouldn’t be where he is today. As for Rak, maybe its the same thing. No promises made, just that JB wants to get his feet wet so he is better prepared next year.
This all seemed to change when AO went down and we were all left with Riley who had literally zero game experience other than Colgate cleanup, which ended our season prematurely. And as JB said, nothing that happens prematurely can ever be good.
by ex-Townie on Feb 20, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yes and no
i see a benefit in Boeheim being able to tell recruits “you can start with me, but you earn your playing time beyond that.” he’s telling the truth, he’s making and keeping a promise, and he’s being realistic (treating them like an adult). i want that in a coach, but maybe not everyone else does.
i think both fab and rak wanted to start as freshman, so jimmy let them. within a few games, i think both players may have realized that they really did need some more time before they were ready to play a lot of minutes. not everyone is a superstar, but this way, they get a chance to prove it, so when jimmy tells them they need more development, he can back it up by showing them the film.
by PoorSports on Feb 20, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure about that
I think Rak was guaranteed a starting role prior to coming here. But thats just me
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on Feb 20, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
It would seem that way
Im curious how that worked. I am also curious if it is a product of Boeheim realizing his #2 guys need the time in case the starter goes down (see AO 2010)
I think it is also motivational
top ranked recruits have a lot of pride and a lot of ego.
Putting them out there to start changes the mindset of the players. When you sit the bench and just get a few random minutes, the Dion mentality comes in where they think that coach is holding them back and keeping them from getting the PT to prove themselves.
When they start, it becomes about them not playing well enough to prove themselves and stay on the court. Then for the sake of pride alone they want to prove that they are worthy of those starting minutes that they are being given.
I also think its no coincidence that the big guys get to start (melo, Xmas) and the guards come off the bench (MCW, Dion). Headstrong guards like Dion can roll in there as freshman and put up 10 points and convince themselves they are worthy of the starting minutes (even if those 10 points come with 4 turnovers, 3-10 shooting, and broken defensive assignments) For a big guy stats don’t come so easily and its easy to end up with 10 minutes, no points, 1 rebound, there is no way to convince yourself that is a respectable line.
That's the exact thinking I had
It sounds just like everything we’ve been reading about Boeheim and how he runs the program.
one of the reasons I like Boeheim
is that he gives the kids freedom and makes them make the right decisions. They’re kids so they won’t always do the right thing, but at least they’ll learn from their mistakes and if not then adios. Pretty cool in my eyes.
That Recruiting style difference
Boeheim acts like hes done this before, Calipari acts like he is desperate to do it for the first time.
well, in his defense
Calipari knows he only has a few seasons before the cheating catches up to him and he has to bolt for the next place that will vacate most of his wins…
I also think Boeheim is aware that our team is going to be VERY good next year regardless of Noel
Calipari desperately needs to fill the holes he’ll have next year.
Lol
not sure if that was “in his defense”. lol
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on Feb 20, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Even if he isn't cheating this time...
his APR rating will catch up to him. It’s hard to get top recruits when you don’t have scholarships to give them. That’s when he bolts to coach John Wall in Washington.
APR doesn't work that way
Players that leave early aren’t penalized unless they leave in poor academic standing.
For example, Anthony Davis and MKG continue to attend class in the spring semester, get their Cs and Bs for showing up and leave for the NBA. The NCAA adjusts UK’s APR to reflect that Davis and MKG were in good academic standing despite them leaving for a professional sports career. Meanwhile, say Dion and Fab quit going to class in the spring semester, have low GPAs from the fall, declare for the NBA and leave in poor academic standing. The NCAA does not adjust Syracuse’s APR and Syracuse could end up being punished for violating standards and losing scholarships.
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower. But you make more money as a leader.
Calipari Beat us for Anthony Davis
When the whole pay for play scandal came out, Syracuse cooled on him, but Kentucky didn’t.
I just want to say
That I don’t like Kentucky(mostly because im a Syracuse fan), but I HATE Calipari. What he has done to a sport I love so very much in the past 25 years makes me livid. Not only has he ruined college basketball with his turnstile recruiting approach, but he in turn waters down the NBA by running a system where 18 year olds feel that they are gods gift to basketball and the NBA should be obligated to give them tons of money. It just rubs me the wrong way and why I am a staunch supporter of the 2 year rule. I feel like college and professional basketball become better sports when 18 year olds are required to play in school for 2 years.
Cuse fan in ACC country.
I think players should have an option
Either you go to the NBA straight out of HS, or you go to college for a minimum of two years.
Yeah
I think its the rule not necessarily Calipari. I’m not a huge Calipari fan either, but half the kids he got the past couple years would never be in college if not for the rule change. I’d love the 2 year rule too. But, its never going to happen.
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on Feb 20, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
its not like they were really "in" college anyway
they played basketball AT a university, where learning happened to occur for most other students.
Cuse fan in ACC country.
college is for preparing for a career, learning how to get and perform a job
BK: This guy is on fire, he is really smokin'.
KenKo: Oh yeah, Bill? What's he smokin'?
Meh. No one pisses and moans because baseball players skip college and go toil in the minors
If a player is sufficiently talented to play professionally, there’s no reason for him to play NCAA ball for free, except to line the pockets of schools and the NCAA.
The one and done rule is stupid.
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower. But you make more money as a leader.
If the NCAA had a 2 year rule, then the 1 and dones would go to the NBDL
that would probably be a better system. The D League would end up with a much higher talent base and be a real minor league system. It would allow certain players with marginal academic standing or extreme poverty to get out of the college system immediately.
the problem is that it would also probably end up being a challenge to college basketball. Not a serious one, but having many of the top 10 or 15 recruits in the country jump right to the D league every year would allow the d league to put up TV quality programming that some national audience would want to see. That means that the NCAA’s product would be reduced, and you know the NCAA is all about money. They can’t risk loosing the cash.
@ petecarp
You dont even know the man. He has done NOTHING to the sport, the NBA did that. Sorry that the game you love has changed but it has and you should deal with it like an adult. Instead you tell of how much you hate a man you have never met for something he had no part in. He gets the best players cause it his JOB. If you were getting the recruits it would be fine with you regardless of what you say
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah
The mean SU fans are saying bad things about my coach on their own site. I think I’ll go troll there.
Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
The other thing
I Honestly think Anthony Davis hurts Kentucky, Noel will constantly be compared to him if he goes there. So If he doesn’t produce at the same level he might be seen in a different light. If he were to come to Syracuse he doesn’t have to live in someone else’s shadow.
It's not a strong premise.
Evans didn’t dissuade Rose, who didn’t dissuade Wall, who didn’t dissuade Knight, who didn’t dissuade Teague. If you don’t want to play in the shadow of others, you can always go where shadows don’t exist. Mutombo and Mourning had no problem following Ewing. The recruit either wants to be in that conversation, or he doesn’t. It’s not what you or I would do; it’s up to him. Besides, isn’t Nerlens supposed to be a better shot blocker than Anthony Davis? (shudder…)
My opinion
if Noel wants to play right away and go to the NBA as soon as possible he’s going to Kentucky. Calipari (for as used car salesman-y he seems) does get kids drafted and the scouts drool over Calipari recruits. He got Daniel Orton drafted aftter one year. Who’s that? Exactly. If Noel comes to the Cuse Boeheim won’t play him if he’s not ready while Calipari has no choice but to play him. I’m of the opinion Fab is gone, but even then Noel could be stuck with a glut of centers.
I think Noel is going to Kentucky. I hope I’m wrong, but I think the writing is on the wall.
The odd thing is
of all the one-and-dones Calipari has gotten through his programs, only one of them was able to take an entire ballclub and turn it into a consistent winner and it’s Derrick Rose. While other players have solid roles in their ballclubs (examples: John Wall with Washington, Demarcus Cousins and Tyreke Evans with Sacramento, etc), none of them were able to have the impact Rose had.
True
Even if Fab leaves, playing center for SU is different atleast defensively. When Fab was out people were saying that it hurt because of his physical presence but also the center in the zone is kind of a quarterback. He can see everything and is directing people and pointing out players. Can Noel do this efficiently as a freshmen? If he can’t (Fab wasn’t able to last year), he will spending lots of like next to Hop on the bench, while Rak and Baye who know the zone will be seeing the floor plenty.
Nerls will end up at UK sadly…unless we can drum up some good ol’ Coach Cal recruiting scandal (where’s Mark Schwarz when you need him?)
Cuse fan in ACC country.
Noel plays a modified 2-3 zone in HS
I think he wants to play for Syracuse, but depending on circumstances, he will play for UK. If Fab stays, then there will be a huge discrepancy in playing time between Syracuse and UK. If Fab leaves, then there is a solid 20-25 minutes a game for Noel. And if Noel is as good as people say he is, then Boeheim will have zero issue with him playing 30 minutes a game. Look at the highly touted recruits* Syracuse has brought in before: Anthony (5 stars, #1 SF, 36.4 mpg); Donte Greene (5 Stars, #8 overall, 35.8 mpg); Paul Harris (5 stars, #12 overall, 21.7 mpg); Jonny Flynn (5 stars, #22 overall, 37 mpg); Mookie Jones (4 stars, #35(!) overall, 5.5 mpg); Fab Melo (5 stars, #16 overall, 9.9 mpg); Rakeem Christmas (4 stars, #27 overall, 11.5 mpg).
Out of all these recruits, not one was a consensus overall #1 prospect in TWO draft classes. Noel is a special prospect and would probably go straight to the NBA. Of the recruits that struggled to put up minutes in their freshman season, not one was good enough to play in the NBA.
Bottom line, good recruits that have NBA talent get minutes. The only exception would be if there is a talented upperclassman already at the spot.
- By the way, that 03-04 class should have been great. What happened?
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower. But you make more money as a leader.
Donte Greene happened
I remember that season. Donte spent most of those 35 minutes, sitting behind the three point line along the baseline and heaving 3 point shots. he got his 18 or so per game, but his effective offensive rating had to be in the low 90s or worse. He also interrupted the flow of the offense, and played weak defense. (the rest of the team played weak defense that year as well)
That team played way below its potential because they never really played well together as a team. Gmac wasn’t a leader yet, Donte was selfish, and they had no Duany-like glue guy to keep the defense together.
'03-'04 class wasn't Donte
That was the Watkins – Roberts – McCroskey – Nichols class.
Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
my bad, I was thinking of the 2008 NIT team.
I guess sometimes the NIT seasons blur together in a rage and disappointment filled melange; however, my frustration with Donte still haunts me in dreams sometimes.
I'm surprised we're going after Noel and not a point guard.
I’d say with all the shooting guards we’re going to have next year we need someone to run the point, unless we REALLY are going to change MCW’s game (he was a lights out 2 guard in high school and now we’re trying to get him to run the point?)
In his limited minutes
he has passed the ball very well. Imagine the havoc a 6’6" PG could wreak.
Cuse fan in ACC country.
From what little we've seen of MCW I really like the idea of him at PG.
I think he sees the floor very well and he seems to have the passing chops to get it done. And if scoring needs to fall to him, he can do it.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
Brandon started at PG every game of his freshman season.
Don’t see why he couldn’t play the spot his senior year. And MCW looks like he’ll be good there as well.
Thats what always confused me
Boeheim always said SG was Triche’s natural position, or atleast what he played in high school. But he has only ever looked comfortable freshmen year when he was playing point.
Cuse fan in ACC country.
Calipari's Recruiting Style
Buddy of mine was an assistant HS coach in the NYC area. One of their players was recruited by St Johns and UMASS when Carnasecca and Calipari were coaching. Supposedly, Calipari told the recruit, why do you want to go to St Johns, everyone knows Coach Carnasecca has cancer. I have no way of proving its true, but from first impressions Calapari is a used car salesman that is willing to say and do whatever to make the deal.
UK FAN
This is totally false. Read the SI article from last year. The player in question and coach in question both say NOTHING like that was ever said. Even the man that is was said about blames the rumor on RICK PITINO. If you dont believe what I am saying, just read the dang Sportis Illustrated article from last year.
Point of information
Calipari was an assistant at Pittsburgh in 1986 when the rumor started. Here’s the SI article mentioned. At page 4, it says the two recruits associated with the rumor deny it ever happened. And that’s the perfect microcosm for Calipari: People believe what they want to believe.
Dear Nerlens
I am the ghost of Christmas future. Look into the fog Nerlens! Look and you’ll see:
John Calipari coaching the Brooklyn Nets
You, averaging 20 ppg for a UK team banned from postseason play
It’s not too late Nerlens. It’s not too late!
TEN THOUSAND YEARS AGO IN THE FUTURE
Born in '87, Orange fan since '86
by StealthTurkey on Feb 20, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
THE EVIL CALIPARITRON SENT HIS MUTANT ARMY OF DIGITALLY ENHANCED BASKETBALL PLAYERS INTO WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN MADISON SQUARE GARDEN AND ORDERED HIS AGENTS HIGGINS AND BURR TO INJURE THE LEGENDARY ORANGE PEOPLE OF THE FINGER LAKES. THE ORANGE PEOPLE WERE ABOUT TO SHOW THEIR LEGENDARY BASKETBALL PERFORMING SKILLS OFF BUT CALIPARITRON THOUGHT THAT WOULD OVERTHROW HIS DICTATORSHIP WHICH BY THE WAY HE ATTAINED BY SECRETLY BRIBING THE MEDIA WITH “ONE-ON-ONE” TIME WITH ASHLEY JUDD.
AND THAT IS WHY KENTUCKY MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO RECRUIT ANY MORE BASEKTBALL PLAYERS.
I miss that show.
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[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/52826096@N00/6917170063/]cybernetic[/url]
<img src="[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/52826096@N00/6917170063/][img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7067/6917170063_a4f579fd05.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/52826096@N00/6917170063/]cybernetic[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/52826096@N00/]mlprall[/url], on Flickr"/>
like this
(Click on the “Image” icon – the one with the tree; paste the URL into the dialog box that pops up; hit “Preview” to make sure the pic shows up; Click “Post”).
I’m not sure what you managed to do above, but it looks like some cross between embedding a link to your picture and embedding the picture itself.
Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
That's what memes will look like in the future.
Everybodys gonna have to read matrix.
I’m going to go ahead and assume the Nets won’t hire Cal a second time. It didn’t work out all that well the first time.
My money’s on Washington.
the only problem the first time is that Cal just didn't understand the rate inflation
that he’d face paying his players at the next level…
Everybody knows Shaq made most of his money playing in College
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
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