AP Voter Ron Morris On Syracuse: 'I Thought Florida Was Just As Good...If Not Better'
by Sean Keeley on Jan 3, 2012 7:45 PM EST
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PrintAs we discussed early this morning, not only has The State's Ron Morris not voted the Syracuse Orange No. 1 in his poll, he's got the Orange all the way down at No. 4. He's the only AP voter to not have SU either No. 1 or No. 2.
So, what's the deal?
The guys on ESPN CNY's Upon Further Review spoke with Morris today to get his take on poll voting and here's what he had to say.
"I kinda decided back in early December after getting a pretty good look at Kentucky, North Carolina and Ohio State and having watched Syracuse once on TV against Florida that, and I don't think I'm alone in...believing Ohio State, Kentucky and North Carolina...are the three best teams in the country by a longshot. Then I think there's a big group of 15-20 after those three, led by Syracuse, that could possibly win the National Championship, but I think there's a big gap between the first three and the rest."
Resisting urge to go on 800 word tangent, resisting urge to go on 800 word tangent, resisting urge to go on 800 word tangent...
"Let me preface it by saying this is a basketball poll. This isn't a football poll. It doesn't really matter. In the big picture, it doesn't matter. My guess might not be as good as yours...and probably isn't, so there's no sense in getting real upset about it. I've gotten quite a few emails from Syracuse fans and I've tried to kinda calm them, saying, you know, it's just not that big a deal. What does it matter whether you're a unanimous No. 1 in late December or early January? There's a tournament at the end of the season, I don't know if the Syracuse fans have heard that or not."
I can understand Ron here, he's right in many respects. But by saying all of that he raises a couple existential questions. No. 1, why bother having an AP poll at all? No. 2, if you're guess is as good as mine, where's my AP vote? No. 3, if Ohio State loses every game for the rest of the season, will you still rank then ahead of an undefeated Syracuse just because they looked good in early December?
Ron then explained his voting process, which it should be noted routinely gets him called out as a bad pollster.
"At the beginning of the year, I take one the preseason magazines...they rank the Top 25 players at each position in the country. And then they have a Top 25 freshmen recruiting class list. And I assign a point value to all of those and I come up with the teams that have the most talent, basically, I rank one through 25 in my preseason poll...People just blast me for it, but I think I was the only one that even voted for Connecticut in the preseason poll. And they ended up winning the National Championship. Because talent wins."
But is there any chance Syracuse, who lacks talent by Ron's definition, could ever move higher than No, 4 in his poll?
"If they run the table, I'll move them up there. And if Kentucky, North Carolina and Ohio State fall apart, but it's not gonna happen. And the thing about Syracuse, and I hate to say this because Syracuse fans probably won't take it the right way, but the thing I don't like about them, is the fact that [Boeheim] plays ten players. That doesn't matter in college basketball, you only need three. You only need five, six, seven. You need three stars to go all the way in the NCAA Tournament and I'm not sure if Syracuse has that. They do have ten quality players but, nobody uses ten players. You don't need'm. And I also have serious questions about Syracuse's ability to rebound. They are not a good rebounding team."
So for those of you making the "Syracuse should be No. 1 for the sole reason that they have a ten-player rotation" argument, you can stop now. DEBUNKED!
Ron went a little off the rails there towards the end. If you listen to the interview, Morris gets openly agitated by the fact that Syracuse has a ten-man rotation. As if it's being done in defiance of him. A little weird.
In closing, THANK GOD the AP Poll has no official bearing on what happens at the end of the season. Can you imagine if NCAA Tournament placements were based on votes from a guy who reads preseason magazines and watches a team once all season long?
Don't email Ron with your salty concerns. Don't leave him nasty phone messages. Just take this, put it in your back pocket and let's all remember to buy Ron a commemorative National Champion t-shirt when that day comes...
"I'll admit, I only saw them play against Florida and frankly, I thought Florida was just as good, if not better than Syracuse."
On second thought, F that guy.
(Seriously though, don't contact him, lets our team do the talking)
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Jackass
This guy is a total clown who does not deserve the privilege to vote in the AP poll. I live close enough to Columbia. Maybe I’ll drive there, punch him in the face and come back home.
This guy is a boob
Could you put his picture in the caption so we know the face of the jackass we are calling/emailing? Maybe he had too much time covering the KKK merchandise stand in a building owned by a African American church in columbia recently to update his poll, or he just doesn’t know bball
by CusebombJim on Jan 3, 2012 7:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'd prefer
that you didn’t. Only reinforces his beliefs.
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
If you've got time, buy my book "How To Grow An Orange", visit SeanKeeley.com and follow me on Twitter and Facebook.
by Sean Keeley on Jan 3, 2012 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Damn you said the same thing the gf always tells me
Prefers me not to respond to people as I am in a public service industry and shouldn’t ruin my reputation over a situation like this. Thank you Sean!
by CusebombJim on Jan 3, 2012 8:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Cause John at the bar is a friend of mine.
by Mayorofdarwins on Jan 3, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
if Florida was better
They would have won, plain and simple. Florida looked so shitty. Not to mention they lost to fucking RUTGERS.
This guy can go eat a bag of dicks.
by pegs on Jan 3, 2012 7:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
It’s ok to say Rutgers. Kids are in bed
by CusebombJim on Jan 3, 2012 8:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 9 recs
Douche
This guy (sorry Sean) " don’t know shit from apple butter" to quote one of my friends from the USMC. Is he high? I’m all for methods for ranking your preseason poll but, this guy needs to yank his head out of his ass and watch a game or two. Or someone needs to go kick him in the nutz.
I wanna scream and jump and light things on fire....
But instead I’m just gonna live my takeaways:
1) By this logic, wins and loses don’t matter, so why play at all.
2) by that logic, why employ CBB writers at all (and I’m talking about the good ones, not morris)
3) After spending a few minutes thinking about it, his little point system is cute (like a little schoolbus)
4) I am now wondering what the definition of “fall apart” is. 3, 4, 5 losses?
5) Even then, this guy doesn’t seem like he would concede.
6) Basically, he puts cuse at 4 because it doesn’t fit in the narrative.
7) This narrative issue has been beaten to death. so i suggest anyone see previous posts/comments if not up to date on that.
8) What qualifies this guy to vote in the first place?
9) I assume he doesn’t care about the polls, so why vote?
10) thank the lord polls dont count with blohards like this voting
Cause John at the bar is a friend of mine.
* give my takeaways
sidenote: HEY EVERYONE, ARE YOU SEEING SETON HALL SOLIDY BEATING UCONN??
Cause John at the bar is a friend of mine.
by Mayorofdarwins on Jan 3, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
His preseason magazine reading
But he told his wife he only looks at them for the articles.
by Erie Blvd of Dreams on Jan 3, 2012 8:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions
It's ridiculous, sure
but we really don’t need to get so worked up about it. The guy is an idiot, but it’s one vote and we’re still #1. Fun to make jokes but who really cares?
http://cusepulp.blogspot.com/
So who runs the AP poll?
Regurgitating the average preseason rankings of a number of other publications, week in and week out – that adds a lot of value to the poll. Can’t see why they would keep this guy in the poll next year, except for comic relief.
I can't be sure
But I think the Associated Press
by Mike I. on Jan 3, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Every day Im shuffling
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
by ryanwk628 on Jan 4, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the better question is
How are votes assigned? By all accounts, Morris doesn’t even really cover college basketball. Do they give a vote to anyone who asks? Do they pick them out of a hat?
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Jan 4, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Of course...
He would have blasted the ‘96 team because they only played 7 guys. The amount of players needed is the exact number the championship team uses. That can change year to year. He is right, there are not superstars, though Waiters is a good candidate and Fab Melo is a very rare, dominant big man. But, how many superstars did Butler have? Sure, they became household names AFTER they went on 2 crazy runs. But, before that? What about VCU? Superstars end up being defined by NCAA tourney wins, so I don’t think any team has a superstar by that definition.
In the end, he is right, who cares. Keep getting better and pray for the #1 thing you need in March…luck. Luck in the draw, injuries, travel sites, etc is just as important as talent in a 40 game. So many games could go either way.
These types of guys make their colleagues look bad
Seriously, how does this guy get a vote? He openly admits to barely watching any games and relies on freakin’ preseason rags. Nice hustle, bro. At least put some time and effort into what you do.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Jan 3, 2012 8:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I love this part especially...
“I kinda decided back in early December after getting a pretty good look at Kentucky, North Carolina and Ohio State and having watched Syracuse once on TV against Florida that, and I don’t think I’m alone in…believing Ohio State, Kentucky and North Carolina…are the three best teams in the country by a longshot.”
Looking at all the other ballots, Ohio State’s average ranking was 6.35 and it’s most common was 5. North Carolina had 36 #3 votes and Syracuse had 60 #1 votes. So, yeah, Ron. You are alon in thinking Ohio State, Kentucky and Carolina are in a class by themselves.
I'm getting ready to change my birthplace to Syracuse.
UConn Question
While watching Seton Hall pick them apart, I thought I heard an announcer say that the last time Calhoun wasn’t coaching games due to prostate cancer, he still got credit for the wins… Anyone know if that’s right? Will he this time during a suspension? Seeing as he’s breathing down JB’s back for career wins, I feel like that’s not really a level comparison. Do you have to be coaching the game to get a career win?
Anyone have insight to share?
There was an article in post standard last week
Mike waters said its up to the schools to decide. If its a limited time most likely he gets credit.
I'd think it should be different this time.
Last time it was medical, this time it’s a punishment. It’s like asking should the NCAAs punish Xavier if their best player was out with an injury or because of the brawl.
His responses
should cost him his voting privileges. He obviously doesn’t take it seriously. He might as well give his ballot to his cleaning lady.
all I know is
We are now favored by 46 over WVU and by about 40 over UConn (via Seton Hall proxy)
which makes as much sense as anything Ron Morris has said. ever.
Utahns for Orange
Seton Hall's last two games
make our 26 point win over them even more impressive.
Who would have thought that Fordham
Would end up as a quality win
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Jan 4, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
I heard him just now on the replay... I think he's trolling.
I think he’s either lazy or doesn’t care about basketball; and needs to defend himself even though he knows he’s not correct.
He is a writer who serves a market that only cares about football; no one gives a crap about Clemson or Sakerlina basketball. So, if he sucks at covering and understanding college basketball, its no big deal.
The football season just ended, so he probably spent a Tuesday afternoon doing his “method” of talent then revised his ballots in light of the big games, or the games he happened to watch.
Lacks knowledge or information sufficient to form a belief
by Rocket Ship Science on Jan 3, 2012 9:18 PM EST reply actions
He obviously didn't rely on Orange Tip-Off
Can’t believe we weren’t his preseason magazine of choice.
by Hoya Suxa on Jan 3, 2012 9:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
With Seton Hall pounding UConn
Both teams should clearly be rated ahead of Syracuse, right?
But Seth Davis said that a win over Seton Hall was worthless!
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
Well, the big east is overrated anyway
And syracuse’s win was at home.
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower. But you make more money as a leader.
by Fly Rodder on Jan 3, 2012 10:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Shoot, this easy
I need a CBB column and an AP vote. No accountability.
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower. But you make more money as a leader.
by Fly Rodder on Jan 3, 2012 10:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If this guy did fantasy football
CJ2K and M Vick would be his first two picks. That would have made for a great year. Because if its appears in a preseason magazine, it must be true.
This guy is awesome!
He’s my new favorite guy. How can you not find this anything but completely amusing. There’s nothing to really disagree with bc he’s not even trying to make an argument. He reminds me of grandpa Simpson, “old man shakes fist at cloud” sorta thing.
I think Kenny should get his vote, can we start that campaign?
Now
back in 19 dickety two—we had to say ‘dickety’ because the Kaiser had stolen our word ‘twenty’…"
I chased him to get it back, but I gave up after dickety-six miles
Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won 10 f-- games, not 10
by PoetryInMoten on Jan 4, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
Why we should care about these polls
Being 1 – 5 is great. As long as you are in the top 5 you really shouldn’t care about the polls. Except for one reason I’ll get to shortly. The main reason you should worry about polls is because of seeding for the NCAA tournament. How does being ranked in Dec/Jan matter? Because every year they look at who you beat. If you beat UNC at MSG when UNC is ranked really high that win means something…if UNC goes on to loose all season and turns out to be a terrible team well that win doesn’t mean that much EXCEPT you still have a win over a RANKED team… a Highly RANKED team…this is of course all hypothetical UNC is always ranked correctly and no team has ever beaten them, especially not Syracuse….anyway… I promised I would explain why every ranking matters…if you are 1 and loose to someone you will drop…maybe to 2,3 maybe down to 8 depending on who you lost to. If you are ranked 5 and loose you could be looking at a top 15 ranking. So ranking maters SORT OF? yeah a little enough that it should be something that is done fairly
only doing this because it seems like a genuine error and not a typo...
You mean “lose” not “loose”
/grammar police out
"We don't lose hat and t-shirt games" - Tedy Bruschi
Also... these are kids
Lets not forget we are talking about kids here. 18 year old kids. I’m pretty sure when you were 18 in HS and told you were the best team in your division you were PUMPED!!!! Um, yeah these kids are still kids and being ranked in the top 25 for the first time ever (Harvard) MATTERS! Being the NUMBER 1 F**King team in the nation MATERS!! They are kids and they are going to play differently based on those rankings…to a degree. So maybe a PROFESSIONAL – like an AP writer should treat it a little more seriously because there are student athletes out there that care about this stuff and aren’t getting paid to play…cough sort of. They are playing for glory and some of them for their future, and national exposure means something too, and who decides that is the networks and they decide whats important in January based on rankings… not scheduling but on the hype machine. So Again… rankings don’t determine much but are important enough to be discussed by fans and treated as important by the select few people that vote.
sounds like a baseball HOF voter
his arguments for keeping Cuse where he has them are similar to the baseball writers who submit blank ballots or refuse to vote for first-time nominees.
essentially, he’s saying that he’s kept Cuse at 4 because he feels the OSU, UNC, UK are all better, despite all having suffered losses while playing weaker schedules.
that’s like a baseball writer saying he won’t vote for a first-timer on the ballot even if said first-timer is a sure-fire HOFer (Nolan Ryan and Cal Ripken come to mind immediately) because since no one has ever received unanimous induction into the Hall, no one ever should. however, chances are the person who doesn’t vote for Derek Jeter in 10 years will be the same person who voted for David Segui or BJ Surhoff in past years.
and people like that need to be removed from the voting process of their respective organizations. Morris’ comments were amusing to a point, but they illustrate just how misinformed some voters can be.
I usually don't like to criticize the voters too much
No matter what they submit they’re going to catch shit from some fanbase. That said, this dude seems like a complete moron. What’s worse is that you can tell he’s the type of moron who can never admit he’s wrong, and instead will just dig in and hold his retarded position no matter how stupid it looks – I like to call this Skip Bayless Syndrome.
I think most people would agree..
If and when we make it to the elite 8, Cuse WILL NOT be using 10 guys by that point. Rakeem and MCW would be the odd men out. Possessions are too important and Boeheim would go with his strongest group. Might even go with a 5 man roto like in the stanford game, the roto that pressed and got us back into the game under 4 mins.
You keep chanting one more year, I thought college was four years
by PointBlankPeriodPeriod on Jan 4, 2012 12:11 AM EST reply actions
its possible that by then both Rak and MCW
will have progressed and matured enough to still see court time. They always say there are no freshmen in March…
F#&% the Big East
I can't be the only one...
who thought of this when reading Ron’s quotes
by ViewFrom215 on Jan 4, 2012 7:33 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
“I kinda decided back in early December after getting a pretty good look at Kentucky, North Carolina and Ohio State and having watched Syracuse once on TV against Florida that, and I don’t think I’m alone in…believing Ohio State, Kentucky and North Carolina…are the three best teams in the country by a longshot.
…
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
by NOLACuse on Jan 4, 2012 8:31 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
So when other team's 5 players are stepping on their tongues on the court
it’s of no value for your team to go 10 deep to have quality, fresh athletes on the court?
What a douche.
I'm not going to make a big deal of this but
screw you Ron!
Since the early 1990's I have not been able to get Mike Hopkins' bloody face out of my brain. I don't remember what game it was but I'll never forget that as my first memory of SU basketball. Mike Hopkins, bloody face, bloody nose, all for the love of Syracuse.
I love how he talks about UConn
And how they won the title. and then he talks about how you need 3 starts to win a title, when UConn won title with exactly 1 star.
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
I just wanna say
I love how we can be No. 1 in the country for several weeks now … earning 60/65 votes (92.3%!!!!!) in the AP poll … all but 1 vote in the coaches poll (which might be Boeheim) …
…And still have a chip on our shoulder!
It’s amazing. I love Syracuse, and that is not sarcasm. I can’t wait until we’re eventually the unanimous #1 team and the world explodes. 2012!
http://cusepulp.blogspot.com/
by Lots of Pulp on Jan 4, 2012 9:49 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Obviously, this guy is just going for the attention...
I mean, would anyone know who this guy was if he didn’t write something that was totally insane?? He doesn’t care about being ’right" or “logical”… he will get a lot more mileage by taking this asinine position than by agreeing with the other voters… the best way to handle this type of journalistic crap is to just ignore him!!!
You Have To Wonder
He says he has received emails from SU fans about his response (well duh!) but how are the rest of the countries teams not outraged by his “process” because if it had been Duke or UNC, I am sure there would be bigger mainstream rants about how this guy should lose his voting rights. I think SC coach can be a big overreactive at times but I am starting to see why the Old Ball Coach went off on this guy. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and if he was simply posting an article, I wouldn’t care but he has a legit vote and THIS is how he does it “well I saw them once against Florida”…WTF! I truly think sometimes we would be better off leaving somethings to computer data. Then again, he got some attention for this so I have to believe he probably accomplished his goal as well.
"I'm in a Syracuse State Of Mind"
http://www.syracusestateofmind.wordpress.com/
"I didn't vote for you!"
“I could become #1, then!”
The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft #1 from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that we, Syracuse, are to carry the #1 ranking. THAT is why we are #1!
Listen, strange women lying in ponds, distributin’ rank is no basis for a system of measurement. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from a preseason magazine, not from some farcical accumulation of wins!
Born in '87, Orange fan since '86
I guess I made a twitter, follow @StealthTurkey
by StealthTurkey on Jan 4, 2012 12:20 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
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