ACC Realignment: Football Divisions for Syracuse, Pitt Finalized Next Week?
by JohnCassillo on Jan 27, 2012 10:49 AM EST
in Syracuse Football
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PrintWill the ACC have the 2014 football divisional alignment on the agenda at its winter meetings in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. next week? Apparently so, says SBNation's BC Interruption (with the scoop from the Newport News Daily Press). As a refresher for those of you (most) who may be unfamiliar with our future league's current setup, the divisions are laid out as follows:
Atlantic: Boston College | Clemson | Florida State | Maryland | NC State | Wake Forest
Coastal: Duke | Georgia Tech | Miami | North Carolina | Virginia | Virginia Tech
As you may have noticed, there is little rhyme or reason to the setup above, as it exists for the sole purpose of matching up Virginia Tech or Miami against Florida State in the ACC Championship Game every year (hasn't happened much). And yet, our new Carolina-based overlord John Swofford seems alright with just leaving things as is, and plugging Pittsburgh into one division, with Syracuse going to the other.
For what it's worth, the Orange appear to be a wanted commodity. SBNation's Gobbler Country wants us to join them in the Coastal Division, for no other reason but to set up an inter-divisional match-up with Pitt each year (rather than their current trek to Boston every other). Boston College, as has been well documented, would love for us to join them in the Atlantic, so we can rekindle one of the northeast's best gridiron rivalries. I, for one, also love that option, if just for the fact that it's typically easier sledding in the Atlantic (as long as FSU's having a down year).
But what about some more radical realignments? The Mason/Dixon plan sees the northern schools (plus NC State) on one end and the southern schools on the other. A "zipper" setup could also be employed, matching each school with a predetermined "rival" and then splitting them all down the middle. Each school is guaranteed a contest versus its most hated foe, but nothing's really guaranteed to be more any more equitable than it is now. My personal favorite (and the most far-fetched) is the "Deadliest Warrior" plan, which creates a "deadly" division (Seminoles, Eagles, Tigers, etc.) and a "not-so-deadly" counterpart (Orange, Hokies, Blue Devils, etc.).
So what say you, Orange faithful? Which alternatives would you prefer? Should we scrap the whole thing and start anew, or are we better off just falling in line and entering either the Atlantic or Coastal? And if so, which one's our best option? The Atlantic gives us BC, but the Coastal would give guaranteed matchups with old rivals Virginia Tech and Miami. A move to the Atlantic division would also provide the hatred with Maryland we've always craved, along with even more reason to despise NC State. Choose wisely, ACC. The Otto-man Empire doesn't like to travel too often.
John Cassillo authors Atlantic Coast Convos, which chronicles ACC (Plus Syracuse & Pittsburgh) football. Check out the blog, and follow him on Twitter: @JohnCassillo
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I want to go to the Coastal with a guaranteed rival yearly matchup vs Pitt. Though that’s mostly out of selfishness (wanting games in Miami as often as possible)
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
North/South
But with Miami in the North. Then the North/South line is the VA/NC border. This puts SU with all of the old BE schools. And FSU and Miami in different divisions (if that’s still important).
FSU & Miami in different divisions is probably a goal
Gives every team in the conference a game in Florida every other year.
Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
If we have to get one of the current divisions
Atlantic is better; gets us BC & Maryland in the division and Pitt as the permanent (until we get two more schools and go with pods, anyway) cross-division rival, and so probably nets as many northeast/mid-Atlantic games as the Big East.
Im torn.....
Coastal division would renew our rivalry with VPI. But the Atalntic would renew our rivalry with BC and I can catch the game at ClemPson every other year
Animal & Non-Animal
I believe I have solved the ACC Divison problem with Syracuse and Pitt entering. We have the Animal Mascots (Wolfpack, Panthers, Terrapins, Tigers, Eagles, Yellow Jackets, and the Hokies) the Non-Animal Mascots division (Orange, Blue Devils, Tar Heels, Cavaliers, Demon Deacons, Hurricanes, Seminoles). It even works with Notre Dame and UConn coming in later.
No
OrangeInSc: While there mascot is a ram a Tarheel is a slang term for North Carolina residents.
Zibby: I can’t argue hokies because quite frankly its a phrase from a student cheer. That being said their mascot is the “HokieBird” so it works. Yellow Jackets are animals, while there class is insect. Biology breaks into two parts Animal Kingdom and Plant Kingdom. So yes Yellow Jackets are animals.
hell..
why dont they just bring in UCon and Rutgirls. Split it up into 4 divisions:
North: Syracuse, UConn, Rutgirls and BC
Mid Atlantic: Pitt, Maryland, UVa and VPI
Tobacco Road: UNC, Duke, Wake and NC State
South: ClemPson, Ga Tech, FSU and Miami
Rutgers + UConn is not happening
I don’t think expansion is happening at all unless it’s Notre Dame. What does the ACC have to gain through adding those two? There are going to be plenty of schools that will strongly oppose both schools.
I am so pleased with ACC management so far
But I just cannot understand why they would not do this:
Atlantic: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Maryland, Miami
Coastal: Wake Forest, Duke, NC State, North Carolina, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State
And then you have locked in rivalry games with Miami-Florida State and Virginia-North Carolina. The remaining 10 schools can rotate their “rivalry game.” Plus, 2 other cross-divisional games every year.
The big upside is remembering conference alignments. With this, it would be easy…. the Northern Schools, plus old friend Miami.
While the southern football schools oppose a true north-south division because it would be too easy for Va Tech, this would solve that problem by forcing the Hokies to get through Miami also.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
Plus
It’s not like it would be only inter-division games.
You’d still have two or three games against the other division. So it’s not like Syracuse would never play Clemson. Just not as often as Wake Forest would.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
Also
Works for basketball.
Syracuse and Pitt (ugh) anchoring the north, along with underrated basketball schools Virginia and Maryland. The Terps won the title the year before we did. Virginia is ranked right now.
The south is anchored by Duke and UNC. So they’ll be OK.
Play each divisional team twice and each cross-divisional opponent once. For 19 games. If football can have 9 conference games, an odd number can work for basketball.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
Like that idea
Quite a bit. In the end, what’s the difference between a basketball game versus Bucknell and one versus BC? Let fanbases gets the most out of conference play.
All about ACC (Plus SU & Pitt) football: http://atlanticcoastconvos.wordpress.com
Follow me on Twitter: @JohnCassillo
by JohnCassillo on Jan 27, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
It's been tossed around a lot since expansion
Check out the comments section of ACC Convos. And then the discussions here right after the announcement was made.
The issue is why the ACC would not do something simple like this. I just don’t get it.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
And has been said numerous times in numerous places
Va Tech would be adamantly opposed to being forcibly separated from the more southern schools with which they wish to associate (part of the reason they moved to the ACC in the first place), so the idea is a non-starter.
Such a division would be great for us, but we’re just going to have to play ball and be happy with whatever division they decide to stick us.
Why is it a non-starter?
VPI gets to dictate terms to the whole conference?
Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
I don't get that either
Virginia Tech gets to play Virginia and Maryland every year. They would still get 3 games against the group of NC, NC State, Wake Forest, Duke, Georgia Tech, FSU, Clemson. Not like they would never get to play those schools.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
Yes
And as I noted, I proposed that months ago. It’s not like he invented the idea.
acaffrey on December 14, 2011 at 12:37 pm said:
I say this for football:
Atlantic: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Maryland, Miami
Coastal: Wake Forest, Duke, NC State, North Carolina, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State
Guaranteed cross-divisional games every year: Virginia & UNC and Miami & Florida State. Those 4 schools each play two other teams from the other division. The other 10 schools play 3 teams from the other division.
Southern schools don’t have to worry about Northern schools coasting… Miami will ensure that. Miami loses some games against neighbors, but resumes rivalries with Va Tech and Syracuse. Keeps BC game too.
http://atlanticcoastconvos.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/acc-realignment-divisional-setups/
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
That's what I thought too
Looks like his “real point” flew over both of our heads.
It will be interesting to see what the true point was…
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
because the Virginia schools hate the idea
since they want to play the North Carolina schools (and the Florida schools and Clemson think it would give VT a cakewalk to the conference championship). Next question?
(and yes, I'd prefer North/South, or even old Big East/old ACC)
But we’re thinking like Syracuse fans here, not like North Carolina fans.
One more thing
Before anyone gets too caught up in the current divisions, there are plenty of rumors out there about the ACC being a target for future expansion.
Let’s hope not.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
I'm almost positive
Mike Slive wants to avoid being pegged as an aggressor in this process (remember, Mizzou and A&M approach the SEC, not the other way around), so I think the SEC option may be out for now. Though the Big 12 one is very really.
If you’re Virginia/UNC/Duke/NC State why would you want to leave the cozy confines of the ACC where you can get lucky and win eight games every few years (unless you’re Duke) for the SEC and a guaranteed 4-8 each season? VPI would be smart to join the SEC, but I also think they enjoy their superior status in the ACC (warranted or not).
All about ACC (Plus SU & Pitt) football: http://atlanticcoastconvos.wordpress.com
Follow me on Twitter: @JohnCassillo
by JohnCassillo on Jan 27, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
He definitely does not want to be the aggressor
I also question the $$$ talked about in the blog. If true, $$$ could convert Slive (or his successor?) into being more aggressive.
Virginia/UNC/Duke are not SEC candidates. They are too academic/basketball focused. However, that trio would have to consider the Big 10 if the SEC or Big XII broke up the ACC.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
The theory is money and discontent
The Big XII gets to renew their deals sooner. With football driving the bus, and Texas-Oklahoma providing an anchor, the Big XII is certain to get more money than the ACC.
Which is why the southern schools are disappointed that the ACC added Syracuse and Pitt—two schools that add much more to basketball (not lucrative) than football (lucrative). Presumably, the southern schools would have preferred to relax the academic standards to take West Virginia and Louisville.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
Except the BXII is doomed to fail
With the longhorns and the OU ready to jump at any time the conference could implode on a moments notice. They aren’t looking to leave now, but with the longhorn network its not nearly as much of a shared situation as the ACC is. There is too much financial inequality in the conference to survive long term.
by CapitalOrange on Jan 27, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I don't disagree
Which is the long way of saying that I agree.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
I'm not sold
On the idea that the ACC would relax its academic standards for football. Also not so sure the Big 12’s as lucrative as we’re building it up. With most of its fans concentrated in Texas and Oklahoma, there’s no diversification of the market. Any school that leaves the ACC for that leaves portions of the Boston, NY, Pittsburgh, DC, Miami markets for all of Texas and Oklahoma and slivers of Kansas and Iowa?
Doesn’t really sound that enticing to me.
All about ACC (Plus SU & Pitt) football: http://atlanticcoastconvos.wordpress.com
Follow me on Twitter: @JohnCassillo
by JohnCassillo on Jan 27, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Well.. they did NOT do it
So the ACC certainly agrees.
The issue is whether some of the ACC schools—namely the southern football schools—agree with that conference position.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
I'm convinced that Texas and Oklahoma aren't going anywhere
They’ve passed on too many opportunities to jump already. If they’re not going anywhere, you’ve got a solid six (with the other Big 12 Texas and Oklahoma schools), and really nine (because neither the Big Ten nor the SEC want the Kansas schools or Iowa State) with the SWC schools that haven’t joined the Big 12 yet available at a moment’s notice.
But I don’t think any ACC schools would jump to the Big 12 either; there’s not enough potential more money to offset the risk factor. And as for ACC schools potentially going to the SEC, it’s basically broken down into
- Schools that might want to go the SEC, but the SEC doesn’t want because of market overlap – Miami, FSU, Georgia Tech, Clemson
- Schools the SEC might want, but won’t go to the SEC because they love the ACC – Virginia Tech, Virginia, NC State, UNC, Duke
- Schools the SEC doesn’t want – Wake, Maryland, Pitt, SU, BC
They don't want to jump yet, but if they do
The PAC 12 will be there with open arms. They are the only real financial punch in the conference. WIthout them the Big XII is really nothing more than the Big East is in football, except without anything close to a major media market.
by CapitalOrange on Jan 27, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
It's much less likely now
It’s clear the Pac 12 wants nothing to do with Texas Tech or Oklahoma State (though they were willing to take them to get Texas, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma in the original Pac 16 plan), and aren’t even interested in Oklahoma without Texas. Meanwhile the cross-scheduling deal between the Pac 12 and Big Ten gave them a lot of the benefits of further expansion with none of the problems.
A WVU blog
These people must be new to WV. It took them a whole paragraph to realize the analysis sucked. If the statement from WV isn’t about starting a riot, or marrying a family member, its probably just a bunch of lies.
by CapitalOrange on Jan 27, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
This is almost laughable
The Big XII almost collapsed last year under UT’s weight. They’ve lost several schools and had to backfill w/ WVU and TCU. No championship game. Geographically disjointed. The TV contract stinks, b/c UT sucks up most of the money with their dedicated TV network. I could go on and on about this, but it’s not happening.
I’d say an ACC school going to the Big XII is probably as likely as an ACC going to the Big East.
I stopped reading at...
“The ACC Being Raided by the Big XII”
Guys, we’re in a stable conference now. We can stop worrying about getting raided every other week.
People Remember!
Divisions are football only, so don’t put any Duke/UNC/Hoops thought into this.
Go Cuse!
Agreed
Though why not basketball divisions, too? I never minded the divisional setup in the Big East when we had it. Makes for better rivalries and easier scheduling all around.
All about ACC (Plus SU & Pitt) football: http://atlanticcoastconvos.wordpress.com
Follow me on Twitter: @JohnCassillo
by JohnCassillo on Jan 27, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Oh I like it too,
but if we are basing this thought process on what the current setup is, the ACC currently does not do divisions for basketball.
Go Cuse!
by nymetsfan1226 on Jan 27, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I didn't like them
b/c we ended up playing UConvict only once per year, but I did like where we played Garbagetown twice per year guaranteed.
Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won 10 f-- games, not 10
by PoetryInMoten on Jan 27, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Don't expect any drastic changes...
Until ND joins around 2020 (2015 if ND keeps sucking at football, their gross income on football is now approximately what it would be to be in the ACC, and 2015 is when their current contract runs out. Also note, ND is seeing the worst ratings for their football games ever (this year!) and the value of that ND contract is dropping daily. They will join the ACC, it’s not a matter of if, but when.). Anyhow, when the ACC bumps up to 16 teams (adding UCONN), you can be sure to see official divisions along geography set in stone for all sports. Until then, expect the current bastardized format at the current bastardized number of teams (14).
G-Mac bitches
BC 2011
I've been all about that move
Notre Dame and UConn keep within the goals — strong academics, strong basketball and football. Plus they have history with enough teams in the ACC to make ti seamless. I’d go pod-style from there, so:
Boston College | Syracuse | UConn | Notre Dame
Virginia | Virginia Tech | Maryland | Pitt
UNC | NC State | Duke | Wake Forest
Miami | Florida St. | Clemson | Georgia Tech
Three games versus your pod, four games versus another pod, and then rotate one from each of the other pods (nine games total).
All about ACC (Plus SU & Pitt) football: http://atlanticcoastconvos.wordpress.com
Follow me on Twitter: @JohnCassillo
by JohnCassillo on Jan 27, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
There would be a huge fight over who gets Notre Dame
and who Notre Dame would want in their pod.
Pitt would be chafed at UConn being in the mix ahead of them. Notre Dame would find it unnecessary to play both UConn and BC. Same basic market. I could see them wanting BC and Miami, as well as us if we were willing to schedule all home games against them in NYC. Or maybe UConn if they agreed to the same thing. Or maybe ND would want Rutgers?
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
Certain schools are tied at the hip
UVA needs to play VT & MD every year. The rivarly with UNC is either the oldest or second oldest in the south. Thats not stopping.
NCSU needs to play UNC and probably Duke.
No one gives a crap about wake, but they need to be playing some NC schools as well.
I kinda want us to be in the division with UVA, since my family has STH to these games. But MD is a lot closer to DC, so that would be nice as well.
Basically the mid atlantic states will probably be stuck together because the rivalries are so intertwined and everything else is just tacked on at the end.
Do whatever is needed to put Pitt, Syracuse, VTech, BC, Miami and Maryland in one division. I don't care much about the other schools.
Orange you glad it's not football season?
by SUMB44 on Jan 27, 2012 3:36 PM EST via Android app reply actions
That'd be ideal
But hard to convince the other “football schools” FSU, Georgia Tech and Clemson that they should all be in the same division, along with the Carolina schools (assuming UVa joins VPI). Competitive balance would be completely off.
All about ACC (Plus SU & Pitt) football: http://atlanticcoastconvos.wordpress.com
Follow me on Twitter: @JohnCassillo
by JohnCassillo on Jan 27, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I have to say I don't care about VT and actively want Miami in the other division
Yeah, SU-VT was getting to be a pretty nice rivalry in the Big East, but there was nothing before then, and there’s no real connection there. And SU-Miami’s history was, with very few exceptions, not good for us.
I’m kind of coming around to making just a minor tweak of the current divisions – send one of Clemson or FSU to the Coastal (can’t be NC State or Wake, as NC schools must be split evenly), and put both us and Pitt in the Atlantic.
I think BC, Pitt, and Maryland
are three great additions to the schedule. If we were in the Atlantic and had a protective rivalry with Pitt, that would be the next best case after a North – South split.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/
North/South Divisions
North / South With Inter-Division Rival
Syracuse / Wake Forest
Boston College / Clemson
Pitt / NC State
Maryland / Duke
Virginia / UNC
VA Tech / Georgia Tech
Miami / FSU
South
North Carolina
Duke
Wake Forest
NC State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
FSU
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