Syracuse Fans Are Facing An Elite Problem

I did up a lengthy post about where Syracuse ranks in terms of all-time elite status. The conclusion was essentially the same; Syracuse has had great success under Boeheim, especially the last decade or so but have yet to cement their place in the elite tier. Maybe it’s time to give that one a dustoff and an update.

Watching the fans a Phog Allen last night after just watching us at the Dome I had the thought that we fans are really not keeping up with the teams level of success. The level of intensity the Kansas fans were putting out during the whole game puts us to shame. I know the Syracuse culture kind of works against intensity but if we have put the amount of work we put into introspection and critical review into positive representation we could put our fandom at an elite level. Thus helping the program slide into that elite level we aspire too.
/typedramblings

It is who we are, our geography, climate, culture, and those stupid analysts.

sums up the dissonance between where we think we are and where we actually are as a basketball program.

Our program had not really risen to national prominence until the late 70s/early 80s, long after the blue-blood Kentucky/Duke/UNC/UCLA/Indiana programs were well established.

If Hopkins is able to keep up this level of recruiting and coaching, we will be well fit to reach that last tier where the pundits/public just expect we will be a title contender year in and year out – which I think is what sticks in our craw – we aren’t given the benefit of the doubt despite our rankings and are still seen as some sort of interloper into the blue blooded elite programs rankings..but it seems like we are expecting too much too soon. Also, our barrier to entry will be a lot tougher, since there are more programs than ever vying for talent and a lot of other teams on the same trajectory as we are.

But we are Syracuse, and if we keep up, we will reach that far.

I look at Syracuse basketball kind of like how I look at Duke or Cornell lacrosse.

When I look at lacrosse, Syracuse, Hopkins, Princeton and Virginia are who I would consider the elites (Princeton is even waning at this point as far as I am concerned).

Duke and Cornell have been really successful lately, but they really aren’t in that top tier. They want to be considered elite but they really are on the outside looking in until they have a sustained measure of success which means multiple championship game appearances in recent years and multiple championships.

Person A calls Person B “a fatty.” If Person B is thin, the conclusion is that Person A is delusional and ignored. if Person B is obese, Person A can be summed up as a jerk and ignored.

But if Person B is slightly overweight, now there are problems. Person B is not-obese, so can argue with Person A over the accuracy of the statement. Person B is also not thin enough to ignore it and feel hurt. Deep down, Person B knows that there is enough truth in the statement.

That is us. We are not elite enough to ignore those who criticize the school. But we are also too elite to ignore those who question our level of elite-ness. Therefore, it’s a battle. Also, we are not a great halfcourt team. We do not have a money player—although we have four players that can and may wear the role for us down the stretch. Kind of like QBs… if you have two, you have zero. Same thing. Whether it truly matters is another. But there is a kernel of truth.

The bottom line is that, for all JB’s wins, most Marches have been disappointments. The ones that weren’t were spectacular. With the exception of a few losses (i.e. Oklahoma, Duke, and Kansas stick out), most of our losses have been games we either could have or should have won… or both.

The ONLY thing that matters is March and April. In those months, teams play like Pitt did last night… only with older players even if less talent. A veteran team used to winning is able to slow the game, limit turnovers, and force us to get out of our own game. Some years, we have the right combination to get past those hurdles. But in too many years, the successes of November to January do not show up in March (or are used up in the BET).

I’d say we’re probably a top 10 program. No way we’re better than Michigan St, UConvict, Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky. Anybody else I’m missing from the past 20 years?

This team is most likely gonna win the natty title.

We all know for a fact that next years squad will win the natty title and maybe go undefeated.

Nothing like ye ol back to back titles to cement your status, plus the ACC move, were like the 80s Miami program but in college bball.

is Pre-Boeheim, Roy’s Runts!

You have to understand CNY.

CNYer’s are a downtrodden bunch in general. They are very cynical. They will always see the glass as half empty. In fairness you can excuse some of this because of the ass kicking they and their local economy have taken over the last 30 years. But with all this comes baggage, such an inferiority complex.

So while they bitch when they see NC St. on the schedule and ask why its not UNC, and many will expect the worst when we played that ranked team like Mich St., or Florida, or fill in the blank, they will also bristle at any put down real or perceived of the team that carries their cities name.

Also, at issue are the SU students themselves, most from out of town. I think they have a bit of a inferiority complex as well. But I think their issues don’t deal totally with basketball.

I think many worry about how SU is perceived to stack up to all the other fine universities their classmates, friends, and family attended. SU may have been your sister or your friends safety school. I think some SU students transfer their issues in this area over to the sporting world. I think it is one of the big reasons so many pretend to care about lacrosse. Hey the law school is ranked 100th in the nation, but we are #1 in lacrosse!!

Honestly, you could use Ron Morris’s flawed logic about his polling to correctly describe Syracuse’s place in this “elite” hierarchy. (Remember, Morris basically decided that there were three teams head-and-shoulders better than the competition and then a large group of strong contenders below them.)

There are a handful of truly elite programs. Based on championships, tournament performance, and yes, I guess media reputation, it’s Kansas, UNC, Duke, Kentucky, and UCLA (though they’re slumping now). They’re at the very top and will always be at the very top. Then, below them, there is a group of probably, I don’t know, 20-25 schools that are tradition-rich “basketball schools” who usually hang out near the top 10-15 in the country, get top recruits, and threaten to win a title once or twice a decade. Syracuse is one of the very top names in that second tier. Michigan State, UConn, Arizona, maybe Texas and Florida of late are some others at the TOP of this group. There is some room to rise and fall here.

If this, what we have now under Boeheim, is ALL Syracuse ever attains—a title game every 20ish years, a Final Four every decade, an occasional Sweet 16 run, and an NCAA berth in all but the very worst years, leading or nearly leading the NCAA in attendance with a truly passionate fanbase—I’m FINE with that and will happily root for Syracuse for the rest of my life. But it seems like given the success of the last 3-4 years, this program is on the verge of accomplishing more. Much more. I hope that when Boeheim does finally retire, things are as he predicted — that Syracuse Basketball is just a big machine that will keep growing.

SU can move up into that group. But it will take a lot of post-season success and a lot of time. You don’t even hear UConn mentioned with those teams, and they’ve won three titles in the last 15 years.

I don’t know if you hit on all the appropriate reasons there but as a Cuse native who went to BC for undergrad and currently lives in Boston (a thriving metropolis), the inferiority complex does exist and is understandable. Fortunately, many of the students come from elsewhere and the players no nothing about these things so the basketball program can and will overcome.

The key is to watch these games for what they are, entertainment, and not tie other emotions into how good Syracuse students are at putting a ball threw a hoop. Even if we become the Miami of college bball (damn good and badass), CNY will still have a shriveling economy and be buried under 200 in of snow.

With that said, this is the best team I’ve ever seen and Dion Waiters is D Wade reincarnated (and smaller). What up

You do a great job of expressing the pent up inferiority complex that SU basketball fans have. We do think we are better than what we are but deep down we know the truth, which drives our cynicism and inability to handle success. As much as I hate to compare us to Penn State, I feel they have the sane inflated vision of themselves in football. Though, I think most PSU fans are too ignorant to realize it like ’Cuse fans.

However, even if we are not an elite “one percent” program (yet), we are in the top five percent of programs. That’s still something to be proud of. And there is the hope that if we can maintain the success over

… that we’ve had the past few years and maybe get another championship, then maybe we can become an “elite” program. It will be interesting moving to the ACC because we will have to face and be measured against 2 elite teams in Duke and UNC each year. We’ll see how we do, but I think we can and will take it to.the next level. GO ORANGE!