For Syracuse and Pitt's Sake, the Big East Needs to Expand
Yeah, this expansion stuff is THAT ridiculous.
As we know, ringleader of the Big East circus John Marinatto recently announced that he intends to hold Syracuse and Pittsburgh to the 27-month period that's written in the Big East's bylaws before they can leave. That, in and of itself, is fair enough. The speed with which Miami and Virginia Tech wasn't very good for the conference, and Pittsburgh's president Mark Nordenberg is one of the main architects of the 27 months. However, the only good business reason that Marinatto would hold us for the full amount of time is that he doesn't want to lose his league's BCS bid. A conference must have 8 members to hold onto an automatic bid.
It does no good for anyone for Syracuse and Pitt to be stuck in the Big East for three more seasons. We can ask Boston College how they were received when they went on the road, it's only going to be worse for our teams, especially when we visit the basketball-only schools. We need the Big East to go take a football school, any football school really. Whether it's Navy, ECU, Air Force, one of those middle schools that Rutgers plays four times a year (I'm sure they could give a SWEET referral), it's really not a huge deal to us at this point...we just need an eighth team to get in here to take our spot. The Big East is lucky in that their performance was recently reevaluated, and their BCS standing otherwise is safe until 2014, so they just need to get 8 teams and make a go of it.
Now if that happens, and it seems likely that it will, there is really no reason for Marinatto to keep us around. We just clutter stuff up, and if we or Pitt were to go on and start winning leagues, which could definitely happen in any sport over the next three years, it would make a bit of a mockery of the Big East. If Marinatto does lock us up after the fact, I can only reason to guess that it is all sour grapes on his, and the Big East's part.
If we've learned anything over the past few years, it's that this expansion isn't going to happen in one big burst. Many of us thought that we'd be in the ACC or Big 10 already, but it ended up only being a few schools (Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, Boise State, TCU) who moved spots. This time, we thought that the Syracuse/Pitt move would begin a seismic shift, but because West Virginia couldn't get out of the Big East, and Oklahoma seems committed to holding up the Big 12, we've hit a bit of an impasse.
The questions now are: is UConn going to squeeze into the ACC, and does the Big 12 try to poach Big East schools? I think UConn would jump in a heartbeat, but it sounds like Boston College has been trying to block them. That lawsuit doesn't seem like a great idea in retrospect, does it Connecticut? I think the bigger issue is that adding UConn is basically the last shot the ACC has at getting Notre Dame.
Notre Dame would love to stay independent if at all possible. However, if we eventually make it to the proverbial four conferences of sixteen teams, which gets talked about all the time (and that I personally believe will happen), it would be virtually impossible for the Irish to fill a full schedule, and they wouldn't be able to compete for a national championship. The 4x16 format, with each conference having two eight-team divisions and a conference championship, lends itself to a de facto eight-team playoff. The theory is that the super-conferences would look to reform, if not completely leave the BCS and establish this system. If Notre Dame isn't in one of the big four, they're not ever going to have a shot at the national championship, which is something that they covet more than their own independence.
By adding UConn, the ACC would drive another stake into the Big East, but the question is, would it be enough to pull in Notre Dame in all sports? If so, it's a brilliant move. If not, it forces the ACC to take a 16th team, probably Rutgers...and Notre Dame probably settles on the Big 10 down the road. John Swofford has been pretty shrewd during this whole expansion era, but I don't know if he's ready to make a move like this. If everyone's settled down, as it appears they have aside from the Big East and Big 12 looking to add mid-majors, I think the ACC may hold put for the time being.
As for the Big 12, I think if they offer West Virginia/Louisville/TCU/whoever else, those teams should take it.. I don't see the Big 12 lasting forever, but I think with Oklahoma taking the reins and driving out Beebe, there is enough stability there to at least outlast the Big East. If that happens, the basketball-onlies may just break off and start the Catholic conference that they all seem to want.
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I posted this on Frank the Tank, re a Big XVI
Wouldn’t the Big XII’s best play be to go to 14 or 16 teams? If you are Iowa St. and you know that have the conference members have eyes on another conference… wouldn’t you want the confidence that you could lose a few teams and still be viable.
Kansas, KSU, Iowa St., and Baylor should all be advocating for 5-7 more teams. Picture this:
South: Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU
West: Oklahoma, OSU, BYU, Boise St.
North: Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St.
East: WVU, Lville, Cincy, and USF
The South and West would alternate joinder with the North and East.
The Pac -16 potentials get the cover if they ever decide they have to leave. They leave behind a Big XII that can keep its seat at the table for quite a while. If Boise St. and TCU have staying power, they can be perennial ranked teams to cushion the blow.
I am not sure that this conference wouldn’t match up favorably with all other conferences anyway.
Texas, Oklahoma as anchors. WVU, TCU, Oklahoma St, and Boise St. in the next tier. A Baylor, USF, Missouri, BYU or Kansas always able to make a run.
Compare:
Texas (#19 AP) – Ohio St (unranked) – Florida (#15 AP)
Oklahoma (#1 AP) – Nebraska (#9 AP) – LSU (#2 AP)
Okie St (#7 AP) – Penn St (unranked) – Alabama (#3 AP)
WVU (#16 AP) – Michigan (#22) – A&M (#8 AP)
Boise St. (#4 AP) – Wisconsin (#6) – Auburn (unranked)
TCU (#20 AP) – Iowa (unranked) – Georgia (unranked)
Baylor (#17 AP) – Illinois (#22 AP) – South Carolina (#12 AP)
USF (#18 AP) – MSU (unranked) – Arkansas (#14 AP)
Obviously, most years will have Auburn, Georgia, Tennessee (in theory), Iowa, MSU, PSU, Ohio State somewhere between "ranked" and "top 5." But if you can put 8 ranked teams together ANY year, that’s a pretty good start.
Dictated, but not read.
Sadly
That leapfrogs the ACC and Pac-12. Florida St., Va Tech, and Miami are nice. But we would need 3-4 other schools to step up to keep pace with even the Big XVI.
It won’t happen because this would screw ND. And that’s cannot happen.
Dictated, but not read.
I like the idea
but I dont think it would work because no one wants to play with Texas.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
It'd make the day for us 'Cuse fans
but I don’t see it happening.
We will not rest until we see these capitalist octopuses annihilated.
-Che Marrone
Forget 4 x 16
“The 4×16 format, with each conference having two eight-team divisions and a conference championship, lends itself to a de facto eight-team playoff.”
With the apparent rescue (by default) of the Big 12, the 4 × 16 scenario just fell by the wayside. As long as Texas has the Longhorn Network, it won’t share its revenue, making UT anathema to the ACC, Big Ten, Pac and probably SEC. Going independent for football causes all sorts of headaches for the rest of UT’s athletic program; thus, a raison d’etre for the Big 12 (a fifth conference) from an Austin perspective (to the joy of innocent bystanders in Ames, Lawrence, Manhattan and Waco).
Even if the Big 12 and Texas revenue wasn’t part of the equation, another roadblock for 4 × 16: You currently have 67 BCS members, with at least 68 next year once Texas Christian enters the Big East (and 69 should Brigham Young join the reformulated Big 12). Several schools would be out of the mix in a 4 × 16, and they would have a lot more to squawk about than Temple (a Big East adjunct member) did when it was escorted from the Big East football conference.
From a PR perspective, it’s best for the BCS to maintain at least five conferences. It also ensures Notre Dame of the football independence it sees as a birthright.
FTFY
It does no good for Syracuse and Pitt for Syracuse and Pitt to be stuck in the Big East for three more seasons.
As you mention yourself, it means that the BE can take a little more time getting replacement teams.
Also makes the 2014 reevaluation more likely to be favorable, assuming that Syr and Pitt are better performers over that span than whoever would replace them in your preferred scenario. (seems likely.)
You needn’t apologize for leaving the BE, self-interest and all that. But this really comes off as disingenuous.
STR 11 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 16 WIS 14 CHA 16
by delicious.crab on Sep 22, 2011 11:06 AM EDT reply actions
Question for you guys:
How would you feel if Rutgers were the only B10 team surrounded by us ACC teams? Even if they sucked there, can you imagine the trash RU fans would talk? Not to mention Mich/tOSU/etc heading to jersey all the time. Doesn’t sit well with me. That’d be a huge recruiting advantage even if they did suck.
However, I think we’ll be in an expansion holding pattern for awhile. Seems like superconferences will just come down to a waiting game on Texas and ND. I seriously doubt RU will ever sniff the B10 without ND joining them.
I’d still advise that we all hold off on any trash talk until we’re actually playing ACC games (and that schools like FSU are still in the ACC). Things could change very quickly.
It would make them
Depaul
www.CuseRugby.com
www.SyracuseRugby.com
by 'CuseRugby on Sep 22, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the opposite is true
We don’t need the Big East to expand but to merge with the B12. I really think Providence is that spiteful to keep Pitt and SU till 2014. They can add 3 new teams in FB and that will get the BE a CG. Then when we leave for ACC FB Nova and team X will be ready to join the BE to replace us and keep the BECG. For BBall they 110% will keep SU because we fill their arenas. For years SU has played road games on weekends so these schools could profit off of our fans.
So IMO what we need to have happen is for OU to get pissed at Texas and then leave now for the P12 or SEC along with Okie St. The SEC would need to then grab a 14th or 16th team from the B12 or BE. That would leave 13 total teams from the B12 and BE. Texas can then go Indy which is what they really want and the B12 can bring on the BE FB schools. That way every current BCS school has a landing spot. I really think right now no one wants to make the next move for fear of causing schools to get left out in the cold.
And of course with zero BE FB then conf becomes BBall only freeing SU and Pitt to join the ACC in 2012 for FB. However like I said above the spiteful peeps in Providence would keep our BBall teams for next 3 seasons. Really isn’t a big deal as we would get home and homes with every team. That is a good thing. As to hostility I doubt it happens as SU usually has 60% of the crowd at these games.
The BE would not lose their BCS bid if SU & Pitt leave today.
There is a 2 year exception clause build into the contract. The BE would have 2 years to get back up to 8 teams. If they were still below 8 after the 2 years, then they would lose their BCS place. That’s how ESPN Syracuse is reporting it .
by moosedontbounce on Sep 22, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
I don't think it matters
I mentioned this is another thread, but it’s worth repeating. In the end, Marinatto will want to save face and not play the part of the petulant kid pouting in the corner when all his friends decide to play a game he doesn’t like. Syracuse and Pitt will file some BS lawsuit to get out of the 27 months, and the BEast will settle for a few extra million in exit penalties. I don’t see any way both Pitt and Syracuse aren’t full ACC members for the 2012 football season. Everyone knows that the ONLY reason for Marinatto to keep them around that long is try to punish them. Sure, the bylaws give him the right to do so, but that doesn’t get him out of looking like a douchebag for actually enforcing it, especially when it’s his fault schools are bailing on his conference.
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
Also
If the Big East brings in other FB schools, depending on when they start they’ll want SU & Pitt out of the way in order to get the new conference play set up. Having Pitt & SU there makes no sense as they’d only be in the way. Pretty sure this is negotiating posture at the moment.
We will not rest until we see these capitalist octopuses annihilated.
-Che Marrone
much will depend...
…on whether the Big East actually gets that 8th team. TCU will be in the Big East next year, so that’s effectively 7. East Carolina is number 8 (but I’m not sure if they’ll be in next year). If the Pirates are admitted, then I would agree that SU and Pitt should be able to leave for the ACC (and pay extra fines). Of course, that’s also dependent on whether any other Big East football schools bail (most likely ones are WVU and UConn…possibly Rutgers at this point).
If they don’t get any teams, we’ll be in the conference for at least another year.
"Over?! Did you say over?! Nothing is over until we decide it is!" John Blutarsky (John Belushi) in the movie 'Animal House'
I don't know
If anyone else bolts (especially WVU), I suspect TCU stays in the MWC (or if Texas relents on its opposition, goes Big 12).
I doubt Texas gives in on that point
But yeah, the vibe certainly seems to be that TCU will bail on the Big East and stay MWC. Can’t wait to see what Bristol makes of that one. Probably praise the frogs for being loyal even though it’s another stake in the what’s left of the Big East.
We will not rest until we see these capitalist octopuses annihilated.
-Che Marrone
For our sake the ACC needs to expand...
just last weekend the world ended as we know it… ask any SU Fan… it appeared we were the leader in a huge game of musical chairs… only everyone else just quit playing after we made our move… so now we’re walkin down Tobacco Road for no reason at all. we’ve abandoned all out traditions & rivalries for some football money , and all I hear is that the current ACC strong football schools dont like it, and are lookin to leave. They dont want UConn, ND doesnt want ACC; so what happens? ACC fills out with Rutgers, Louisville, Cincy, USF…. Ive had this bad dream before.

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