A Little Perspective On SU Football
by ryanwk628 on Dec 4, 2011 4:11 PM EST
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Doug has been getting flamed for his recruiting recently and how that has translated to the product on the field. However, if we could for just a moment step back from our notion that SU is the best college football program in the country and try to take an outside view as to what Doug and the coaches are working with. (a big reason why so many others turned down this job)
Doug does not have a football version of the Melo Center, and JB will be the first to tell you how much that has helped recruiting. Recruits, for the most part, are not blindly passionate fans of a particular team. They don't see the world through Orange glasses. A high school junior cares less about color and more about shine. There is no sense in beating a dead horse and bringing up the weather (while Im sure every coach who recruits against us does.) Our facilities are MAC level (remember that video of Ohio's locker room when they got black unis? so maybe worse than the MAC). It limits the growth of our program and while we are waiting for some rich donor to leave us millions in his (or her) estate, the schools we recruit against are using state dollars to grow their programs.
Our facilities are deeply lacking. Especially when compared to the three other schools that are the best measuring stick of ourselves as a program: BC, Wake and Northwestern. There's a reason we have been scheduling them folks. Its because its a fair fight. They are on our level. These are private, eastern schools where an athletic scholarship cost 40K as opposed to 18K at a state subsidized school.
Wake Forest plays their home games at BB&T Field. It only seats 31,000 but that does not include "Deacon Hill" a grassy area behind the south end zone with picnic style seating (partying.) Its an open air stadium with plenty of room around it for tailgating. (by the way, they have a nice video that explains all of this) In 2007 they spent just under $50 million on improvements including "Deacon Tower" which includes suites and club seating that blows away what we have in The Dome (and is on par with MetLife Stadium from what I can see). Their stadium is connected to their field house which houses both the home and away locker rooms.
But thats not all folks! Wake Forrest also has The Pruitt Football Center. I will let them describe it
The main floor houses the office of head coach Jim Grobe, as well as a large video editing suite and a room designed specifically for NFL scouts where they are able to gather player information and watch film.
The team's spacious 3,500 square foot locker room is also located on the main floor of the complex. The locker room is filled with individual solid oak lockers and an equipment area, which houses each players' full football gear.Directly outside of the locker room is a comfortable players' lounge with two flat screen high definition TVs and black leather sofas. Team members will often come here to relax between meetings or classes.
The focal point of the complex's second floor is Decker Auditorium. This 1,500 square foot team meeting space features 130 black leather seats, each embroidered with the Wake Forest logo.
It also houses the 2006 ACC Championship trophy, something we are going to have to set our game up if we ever want.
Wake also totally renovated their weight room in 2008... just sayin'
Boston College, another future ACC rival has some pretty sweet digs themselves. They play their home games in 44,500 seat Alumni Stadium, which was renovated in 1995. If you look at their photo gallery, you can see how they have continuously improved the facility since its inception in 1915.
In 2005, BC built the $27 Million Yawkey Athletics Center. This 72,000 square foot facility houses some snazzy locker rooms, a museum, offices, a lounge, new weight rooms, a new training room and a whole bunch of other frivolous spaces.
Northwestern does not boast about its facilities, but being in the B1G it throws some weight around. We all know about Ryan Field which was the double for the Arch in The Express. Its an old stadium with a ton of history that they hang onto for traditions sake. What we may not realize is that in 1996, they built a 30 million dollar practice facility with both indoor and outdoor practice fields (thats like 50 million today) to go along with this field which they have been continuously improving.
Northwestern is perticuarly proud of their Buehler Sports Medicine Center which just seems over stocked with trainers. It also features other therapeutic amenities such as rehab pools and spas. (not having a medical school comes back to bite us in the ass again)
Where do these teams land? What are realistic expectations for them? 6-8 win seasons with a run at a conf title once a decade. And we are not at their level yet.
Syracuse to say the least is not on par with these schools, two of which we will be competing against annually very soon. We do not have a football facility, but rather a wing of the field house. We have renovated Manley into a shanty 60 yard field rather than build a building. (but dont tell the athletic department that, they still consider Manley "one of the country's best basketball facilities" haha) This is all quite a bit away from The Dome, which is now almost 30 years old without any real improvements save for splashing orange all over, but I assure you, there is still gum on the cement from the first game, now black with age.
How can we improve? DOC Gross will try and pitch a brand new stadium down town or something. It will never happen. Its his fund rasing approach. He will wave a $500 million dollar facility in front of the fans to raise $50 million. Its to get us excited. He is doing this with the boat house for my former team, showing a 12 Million dollar plan (I dont see what about a cinder block building the size of a house justifies it costing that much but what ever) and will realistically end up with closer to 1 million to make improvements with.
We need to be realistic. I for one am a fan of setting realistic goals and having a plan. I know we seem determined to keep football at Manley, but what if we were to add it to The Dome? Blow out the west side of the dome like Wake did to their stadium and put in boxes, new locker rooms, offices, training rooms, a lounge, etc. Even if its at the expense of the endzone seats (no one sits there anyways). Then a practice field could go in place of the parking lot across the street. On game days this could host events and fun activities!
If not, then we need real facility at Manley. Just a wing wont cut it. Sacrifice some parking and perhaps the soccer field (maybe they can have a better one up on south) and just build it. And do it right, like we did with the Melo Center.
As for The Dome, we need to improve game day atmosphere first and foremost. This was obvious after I went to the UConn game. UConn fans dont go to their game because they give two sh*ts about UConn football. They go because its a blast. The tailgating is really good. Everyone is out and about. They serve 20oz'ers in the stadium. We need to encourage tailgating. Make it an event. Even if we have to designate an area so the townies done get pissed off (and if you live next to a parking lot and do get upset that people tailgate on game day, youre a townie. get over it). We need to reach for the later start times and encourage people to get their early. Perhaps free parking if youre 2 hours early. Or a band in the parking lot (not on the quad) 2 hours before the game.
The Dome itself is so outdated its scary. The MSG renovations got me thinking, can we replace some bleachers with seats? While we are at it, power wash the place and put some kind of a finish over the cement? Like an orange epoxy floor coating with a silica grit so we dont slip. The concourses need to be updated badly. I believe an expansion on the west side would allow for some better food prep and thus better food. At MSG they had video signs on flat screens with menus. That was a nice touch.
What is it going to take to get a ribbon board in the dome? Something to replace the old score boards and the poor quality screens we have for replays.
Also the concourses are so dark. Im trying to think "Restaurant Impossible" here as opposed to all new facility - so lets put down a durable laminate on the floors to look like fake hard wood, paint the walls white to reflect light and increase the fixtures with something that resembles natural light as opposed to halogen. I for one dont like feeling like Im getting food from a cave. Oh... and while its neat they put up framed pictures of athletes, lets do a better job. Better pictures, larger, and no wood frames. How about light boxes with some pictures that have been run through photo shop so they look professional?
As for SUathletics, firstly, does it only look weird on my computer? Can we update it a little more often? SU has hundreds of amazingly talented students who would work for the athletic department taking and editing photos or producing videos for just the right to put a line on their resume. Potential student athletes love videos on youtube. Grass roots stuff. Things they can send to their friends or post on their facebooks. So do fans. USC has great videos for season intros and some weight room stuff. Recruits watch these. We are the best TRF school in the country and we hardly put anything on youtube. And we have a student base that can put together amazing videos (ex mayfest 2011)
We are in a tough spot recruiting wise. Yes we need to win before the money starts flowing in, but we need money to get the players to win. I dont think anyone who would want the job would do a better job than Doug. Could Nick Saban? Sure, but there isnt a prayers chance in hell he would ever come here even if the money was right.
There is no secret formula. Its about building a program, developing it like you develop players, cultivating an attitude and putting one foot in front of the other. Its not an over night process. Its up to the school to decide where their commitment is. And its at an exponentially increasing cost. The three other schools mentioned have 8 win expectations. Our level of financial commitment is about 5 wins. No NFL team is signing a league minimum QB and expecting him to make the probowl. No business hires a CEO for less than the going rate and expects him to be a brilliant innovator. An IndyCar team cant compete with half the budget of the other crews. Its true of any business, you get what you pay for.
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Great post!
Very well thought out post with good references, and I agree with you all the way around. Even smaller changes here and there to show that some kind of an effort is being made. I don’t see them blowing out one end of the dome, as you suggest, but replacing benches with actual seats and improving the concourses is a great start (from a fan’s perspective). Better atmosphere=more people wanting to attend games=more money to pump back into the program.
Well said
Agree with everything you said.
I can’t remember exactly where I read it, but I thought they addressed the replacing the current benches with actual seats a long time ago. They couldn’t do it because it would decrease the capacity.
#BeatEveryone
Ok
But when are we ever close to capacity? Haha
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
by ryanwk628 on Dec 4, 2011 9:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe that makes more sense
Drop the capacity by 5,000.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
Of course, if they put seats everywhere
That would reduce the basketball capacity.
However, I think the basketball attendance still sucks. 24k for Florida?
It’s great we can get 34+ for Villanova. But wouldn’t it be better to 25 for every game?
Make the tickets a little rarer and perhaps they wouldn’t have to be given away.
At least put seats in the lower half. Keep benches above.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
Obviously too late for this now
but I always wished they’d play a game a year at Manley—the Colgate game or something, add some tradition to it, and market it as An Event. The place would easily sell out and it would be rocking. But… yeah. 60-yard practice field.
It's the most bullshit thing I've seen in thirty years.
by Girardi Party on Dec 4, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
They did it my freshman year at SU, 1994-95
The game at Manley was exciting as shit
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
RESTORE 44!
by kotite4ever on Dec 5, 2011 9:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
When they built the new cowboys stadium...
They showed how they could adjust the number of seats in each row, by simply sliding more seats onto the fixed rail. Bigger games they make the gaps between the seats smaller. They showed how you could add 5 seats to each row, which added up to around 4,000 more seats for big games. If the dome plans on being the stadium for the next 20 years, they have to put in seats, the benches are not big enough, especially if you get a couple big people in your row.
You keep chanting one more year, I thought college was four years
by PointBlankPeriodPeriod on Dec 4, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
What I don't understand
Is how people act like the $5 million exit fee to the ACC is nothing. I’ve seen lots of people suggest that SU be allowed to pay $15-20 million in order to leave now. If SU had $15-20 million available to “buy out” their big east contract then why haven’t we spent that money on facilities. This Story was not too long ago and it says the Athletic department is looking for $4 million to upgrade the facilities. If we have $5 million for an exit fee then we should have no problem paying $4 million for upgrades. I’m not against the ACC move in the long run, but if we have this money why aren’t we spending it now, especially if it’s going to give us a jump start on competing in a much more competitive league.
Short-term loss
For long-term gains. They will go from about $4 million per year in TV revenue to $14 million per year in the ACC. Plus, who knows since the ACC can renegotiate the contract. All the upgrades are great, but the one thing that guarantees revenue in the future is the ACC move. You have to pay for that first, then use the windfall to fund these other things. I have faith the AD plans to use the new TV money fpr upgrade projects. I have to believe many old-time football alum are angry that Carmelo donated a building after only 1 year at SU but none of the football guys have done the same. I know McNabb and Freeney made some cash in the NFL and could give some back to restore the football legacy.
by orangetundra on Dec 4, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Question
Says Syracuse had graduated 3 billionaires. Who are the three? Anyone know???
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
I bet two of them are:
Robert Jarvik, inventor of the first artificial heart
Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, a member of the Saudi royal family
Here is a list of notable Alum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Syracuse_University_people#Notable_alumni
by Gregory Tuers on Dec 4, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Duh, I forgot
And the Newhouse family… Worth like 4 Bil, or something like that.
But I think we all know that would donate for Newhouse IV before some Football facilities.
by Gregory Tuers on Dec 4, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
But Newhouse is an interesting point
The facilities are top-notch and the new building is gorgeous. Is it a coincidence that Newhouse is the top-ranked communications school in the country every year?
Success breeds success, so just like with football, people need to love the product to want to donate to its cause, but it’s not a mistake that Newhouse is a fantastic school and has fantastic facilities.
It's the most bullshit thing I've seen in thirty years.
by Girardi Party on Dec 4, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'd hit up the prince for a donation
what better way for them to improve their image here than to donate to America’s #1 sport!!??
I'm hoping the ACC gives Cantor a comically large check when we officially join...
and Cantor turns around and gives it to Gross for new Football facilities. Honestly lets just tear down ESF they only cause trouble and get in the way.
But...
Then where am I going to buy my weed?
#BeatEveryone
by theNYsportsguy on Dec 4, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Connective Corridor
http://www.syracuserugby.com/
by 'CuseRugby on Dec 4, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
if you manage to tear down ESF
be sure to leave the quad intact; and definitely don’t try to walk across it. You can play ultimate frisbee on it, but just don’t walk across it.
Oh, look at me! I'm making people happy. I'm the magical man from. Happyland in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Laaane! Oh, by the way, I was being sarcastic.
Nice post, brother
Perspective was needed.
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
If you've got time, buy my book "How To Grow An Orange", visit SeanKeeley.com and follow me on Twitter and Facebook.
Excellent post!
There is a lot to be done…hopefully it starts soon, because otherwise, we will end up like BC in the ACC. No one wants that.
The ACC
has a few private schools. A much more competitive situation with Duke, BC, and Wake Forest having similar resources. Miami is private too, of course.
I still say it’s too bad we couldn’t get a TCU/Notre Dame package for the west corridor. Leaving this split:
Syracuse, Pitt, BC, Notre Dame, Va Tech, Virginia, Maryland, TCU
Duke, NC, NC State, Wake, Clemson, GA Tech, FSU, and Miami.
That would be seven private schools in one conference. Great football, great basketball. Two teams off the coast.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
Outstanding post
Excellent points all around, as it’s not exactly a secret that our outdated and uninspiring facilities have been letting down our coaches since the Coach P days. The Dome, when new, was a huge recruiting tool for Coach Mac to build the program back up in the 1980s, but now it’s a 30-year old building that Dr. Gross euphemistically referred to as “tired” looking when he slapped some lipstick on that pig back in 2005.
We need to stay in the arms race, and hopefully the ACC money helps us dive right in and upgrade our football facilities ASAP.
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
RESTORE 44!
Good perspective
It’s easy to say SU needs a football facility in line with other schools, it’s another thing to come up with the money to build such a facility. Dr. Gross clearly has his work cut out for him, and the Dome has to be either refurbished or replaced as the football team’s home field sooner rather than later. It won’t be replaced unless someone supports SU the way T. Boone Pickens has supported Oklahoma State. Their recent success in football is no accident, and has more to do with the tens of millions of dollars that Pickens has pumped into the program and its facilities. The facilities have allowed Gundy to land the players he needs to look like a genius. The bottom line is talent, and if SU’s facilities aren’t competitive, they will continue to strike out with top recruits. This is going to be a problem regardless of who the coach is. Since SU is a private school, it doesn’t have the guarantee of state funding that a public school does. I’m not sure what the solution is, but it would help all other areas if Marrone could get the team back to even a minor bowl next year. They might not make much money, but the exposure and additional practices should be the springboard to continued success.
Gross is a much better fundraiser than Crouthamel because
a) he seems to be a natural hustler (in a good way) and b) he’s not lazy and complacent like Jake Crouthamel was at the end of his tenure. If there’s money to be had out there to seriously improve the facilities (short of a gazillionaire benefactor like Pickens emerging), I trust Gross will somehow find it. Here’s to hoping…
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
RESTORE 44!
the worst evidence of the Crouthamel's laziness and indifference
Was when Syracuse changed its nickname to “orange” and they just painted the word “men” in the end zone green. You could still clearly read the word “men” (it was just green) and the word “orange” was no centered.
Oh, look at me! I'm making people happy. I'm the magical man from. Happyland in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Laaane! Oh, by the way, I was being sarcastic.
by stumpycuse on Dec 4, 2011 10:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Totally agree
And was going to mention Pickens but couldn’t remember his name. The main thing I’m getting at us 1) this will take time and 2) that over the long run consistant success will take an approiate level of commitment regardless of who’s coaching. I’m not saying it’s why we had a 5 game skid to end the season but it maybe why we don’t have the athletes where we don’t have to worry about beating a uconn.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
by ryanwk628 on Dec 4, 2011 10:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was just thinking about the Carrier Dome this week while I was at the Dean Dome. The Dean Dome has that same dark, dank feel about it. Lots of concrete, no ribbon scoreboard, and the parking is horrible. At both UNC and SU you can get away with this with top 5 Bball programs. Of course the problem is SU plays football in their dome and they play it poorly.
On another note, are there any good recruits coming out of NYS High Schools? The greatest player in Chautaqua County history is Shane Conlan, thats not saying much.
Awesome
Love all of this. I’ve spent a decade covering Alabama and Auburn and the atmospheres couldn’t be more different from what we have in Syracuse. It’s too bad. I don’t think people there love football any less.
Really good post, but...
First of all, great job on the post. It obviously took a lot of time and thought and you are to be commended for it.
And whether your specific ideas for renovations are the right ones or not, it is clear that we need to upgrade to get back in the arms race.
(As an aside, having been to BC’s place many times, I’m not sure I’m as impressed with their facilities as you are. Now being located in Boston, that’s another matter…)
As a program, we’re bleeding from quite a few places right now. The changes you suggest would take some time even if the funding and the go-ahead happened tonight. And from the standpoint of fan turnout, there is no guarantee that improved facilities would draw even one more fan up to the Hill. Sorry, but it’s true. There is a core group – unfortunately not that large — that will support no matter what, but the larger group is composed of frontrunners who will respond to winning and not much else.
While I like Doug, he has made some bad decisions with his staff that will need to be straightened out quickly, and that may have a much faster impact on performance.
I think he also struggles as a game-day coach. He could benefit from having his own Don Zimmer on the sidelines, and if that guy could also coach special teams, it would be a great two-fer.
Again, admire your work. It’s one piece of the puzzle, but we need quicker fixes as well.
The Dome renovations may not draw more fans right away, but facilities upgrades are painfully needed across the board.
Drawing better recruits will be much easier with dedicated, contemporary football facilities. And the Dome could at least look cool to potential recruits instead of looking dated with obvious cosmetic “fixes”. You are right about winning bringing fans, but coaching alone isn’t going to bring us the kinds of seasons front running fans show up for. We need better talent and we won’t make much headway in that department without some serious facilities upgrades.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
by NOLACuse on Dec 4, 2011 10:49 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
missed the point, i think
Better facilities bring better recruits. Better recruits brings more fans and wins more games, which in turn brings more fans. Bringing more fans brings more money, buys better facilities, brings better recruits, brings more fans/wins more games…. and so on.
Yes, but it begs the question: will the Unuversity be willing to make the initial investment to get the ball rolling
Or, do they expect that the extra revenue from new TV football contracts will be used to support other un-profitable sports?? If they choose the latter, they will kill the golden goose!!
With due respect...
I have to suggest that you missed the point.
And I don’t mean that in a combative way.
I agree with most of the things said in the OP.
But other than a paint job or the quick install of a ribbon board, the other suggested improvements suggest an impact in, say, 3 to 5 years down the line.
How long are you willing to wait?
We need it faster.
That was my point.
It won't happen faster unfortunately.
There simply isn’t a quick fix to SU football’s problems. I think that is something a lot of SU fans can’t come to terms with. They see programs like Florida or Auburn or OK State go from mediocre to all-world in just a few years and expect that it should be able to happen here too. But it simply can’t. The uphill battle SU is still facing doesn’t have a quick fix. It will likely be a decade under Marrone (so 4+ more years) before we can hope for consistent conference championship contention. Fixing our recruiting problem, aside from committing huge NCAA violations, will require a ton of patience from fans. The holes that GRob inherited were problematic enough, but he came in and just kept digging the hole deeper and deeper. Urban Meyer could take over and even he would probably struggle for several years to get the ball rolling.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
I dont think major shake ups
in the coaching staff is going to help. It sends the wrong message to HS coaches and players. Yes, we could bring in an experienced guy. Someone suggested Ron Zook. I just dont think we can afford him even as an assistant. And if it does work out, at some point he is going to bail in the middle of recruiting.
Doug makes 1m a year. That is bottom of the barrel for a HC at a BCS school. I think there is a ton of value in the guy.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
additions might help though
Hackett was really a temporary OC, so him moving to the side in favor of someone with more experience isnt really a major shakeup, he can go back to being the QB coach.
And for special teams we definitely need someone full time working with those guys. Our special teams unit needs some oversight and help.
I say make a whole new football facility at Skytop. They already have the softball field, the hockey rink, and tons of tennis courts there on South. Get a new stadium (outdoors), football facilities, practice fields all in that area. Make that area right off 481 THE Syracuse football location. But money is everything with this.
Updating the Dome is the best and cheapest bet. It keeps with tradition. Build the new facility that connects with the Dome right alone Irving where Raynor hits. There’s a good 100 – 150 ft wide space. Make it 4-5 stories and you have nice building. If they want money – call up Freeney ($72 million deal). Even McClain, MIke Williams (ehh…never mind), Arthur Jones – they can muster up a few million combined.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 4, 2011 10:17 PM EST reply actions
Outdoor stadium would suck
I went to the last game at Archbold and a few others. The romanticism of playing outside is just that. We’d lose 10-15,000 fans per game. If there is someone who doesn’t go because it is outside, there are 10 that wouldn’t go if it WAS outside.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
Err
If there is someone who doesn’t go because it is inside, there are 10 that wouldn’t go if it was outside.
Even that doesn’t make sense. Nevermind.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
I know what you’re getting at.
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
RESTORE 44!
by kotite4ever on Dec 5, 2011 9:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Im never going to advocate for an outside football stadium
Theres a reason they built the Dome in the first place.
The difference between now and 1980 is the basketball team has really stepped up while the football team has dropped off, meaning priorities now are quite different from 1980. having two facilities at this point for each team is probably an idea that needs to get tossed around more. Keep the Dome for football, and open a new facility for basketball.
However
I am all for turning Skytop into a sports complex with its own basketball and football stadiums in the future. Id love to see that once the Dome finally outlives its usefulness. I think we are stuck with the Dome for another 20 years though to be honest.
The 481 on/off ramps would be a wonderful thing.
If we get some new venue for hoops
it better match or exceed the awesome factor provided by the Dome…
F#&% the Big East
Dome was originally going to be there
with its own dedicated offramps on 481 and everything. They wanted the arena to be on the main campus… and while that is cool, I think that was a mistake. The parking and commute in/out of there would have been so much easier if it were on Skytop.
It's the most bullshit thing I've seen in thirty years.
by Girardi Party on Dec 4, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
As a student
The number one thing that Syracuse has over Michigan is the fact that I NEVER had to walk a full hour to the dome.
Michigan has everything everything else from a fan perspective. But man, that hour walk is terrible.
'Cuse 2010, Michigan 2012
I think we've discussed this in times past
but I went to Michigan my freshman and sophomore years of school. As a music student, I lived on North Campus (Bursley and then Broadway St. off Plymouth Road) and that bus ride/20-minute slog in the cold to Hoover Street was one of the worst parts about college football Saturdays. It was fun when the weather was nice and the frats were bumping at 10:00 for a noon game, and I liked Bongo Guy, but that was about it.
I walked all the way home from the Appy State game. It was 100 degrees, I was half-drunk, and it was miserable.
It's the most bullshit thing I've seen in thirty years.
by Girardi Party on Dec 5, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Dome updates
I love these ideas.
The ribbon boards are an excellent idea. Just look at how nice the video board on the court at basketball games looks. I love the look and movement of them at other stadiums, and that alone would make the stadium look more up to date.
The seats are another good point. I like the seats at the 50 for football games, but I think it would look even cooler spread across the whole stadium. Even if it diminished capacity alittle, it would make the dome feel more full when the people weren’t showing up.
As for the concourse, I had never thought about that but you are definitely right. A nice modern paint job and new lights would go a long way. I’d like to see one of the nice murals like they came up with for the lacrosse team spanning the walls of the dome, with everything flowing nicely around the dome.
I see that they updated one of the food places behind the student section. Hopefully they update the rest. Also, I was amazed when I saw what the 44 club actually was.
For the practice facility situation, definitely need the football Melo Center equivalent. Get Jim Brown or Donovan McNabb and name it after them.
Overall, excellent post. Someone in the know has to send this to Dr Gross.
Re: Dome cosmetics
Why do the bleachers—if we’re going to keep the bleachers—have to be silver? And why couldn’t the concrete behind/below the bleachers be painted/apoxied orange or blue or something? I think a change to either of those things would make the Dome look that much nicer and would make the place look a lot less empty… no more “Silver Out.”
It's the most bullshit thing I've seen in thirty years.
I was also think, maybe we should paint the outside of the Dome?
Paint it in the Blue and Orange and make it look more interesting. Yeah it is imposing when walking up to it right now, but why not? Make it stick out on campus. In some ways it is that big building over in the corner of campus by ESF. (And I used to walk by it a lot as an ESF student. I was the one SU building that I saw every day.)
by Gregory Tuers on Dec 4, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
A well-executed paint job could be pretty awesome.
I wouldn’t want them to slap it on though. Hire a committee of artists/architects to come up something really interesting. Maybe even go beyond paint and look at other exterior finishes. It’s basically a blank canvas and could make for a really interesting competition for some of the local design firms.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
Agree 100%
It is textured so it would maybe be hard (Dome Stomps, y’know), but there has to be something they could do to the outside of that place – be it paint, huge hanging murals, whatever. It’s iconic in this city’s landscape, but only because of the roof. The mammoth gray concrete slabs add nothing.
It's the most bullshit thing I've seen in thirty years.
by Girardi Party on Dec 5, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
I've always said...
I want to become filthy rich so I can give unreal amounts of money to Syracuse. I mean, people would never bring up the fact that snow and weather is preventing us from having recruits. I would build the largest football stadium in America, just to say we have it. Then I would build a 35,000 seat dedicated basketball arena that makes the YUM Center look old school (is that possible?). Yes, this is all a dream I have, but if I am a billionaire, you can bet I will.
I have a dream: that Syracuse will dominate and be viewed as a powerhouse in every sport that it enters. I have a dream..
"Can I tell you something? I've never worried about my job status in 36 years. There is many years I didn't have a contract extension; I didn't have anything. When I worry about that, I may have to get a job with you guys!"
by eliteirathlete29 on Dec 5, 2011 12:38 AM EST reply actions
Don't forget concessions
Our food selection is a joke.
by BushBoar on Dec 5, 2011 12:42 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Excellent post
And a little depressing. Haha
McNabb has all kinds of Chunky Soup money, can’t he put up a few million like Carmelo did?
A LOT depressing
None of the wishlist stuff is coming anytime soon. Doc Gross has managed to do what in six years? Club 44? And?
Hopefully, the ACC money is used to prime the pump, but I don’t see it happening.
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower. But you make more money as a leader.
Upgrades all around!
I completely agree with this. The dome is a run down football facility that needs upgrades not to mention the football facilities that need improvement. Don’t get me wrong i love the dome but a couple small things here or there will improve the dome’s atmosphere by a ton. Seats instead of bleachers at least for the 100 and 200 levels. A new scoreboard would be awesome. Painting the Concrete so when the dome is empty its not silver and gray. Have a contest for the students or even fans to create a video for the beginning to get the fans ready to go. This years lack of that really hurt. I know the video from last year was nothing great but at least it got people standing and ready for football. have one game a year where they have alternate jerseys. (those all orange ones from a couple years back were hideous but someone has to have a better idea than that.) I had season tickets this year in the second tier and to be honest i was one of the only people standing and cheering on third downs or when the game was close. By the end of the year i ended up just going to the third tier because the fans were better. The food selection is horrendous and its way over priced. When i can get a pitcher of beer for about 5.50 at the varsity why on earth would i buy a 10 oz cup of beer for 6.50. They should throw a pep rally or something for the first home game something almost like midnight madness or like other big football schools do. We have the alumni, We probably have the money , We can definitely get the money But the school has the ultimate say and until they want more than mediocre. Until then who’s up for a $5 sabarro’s super slice and a 6.50 beer in a depressing structure known as the dome?
Correct me if I'm wrong
But didn’t SU spend $3 million on a weight room about 5 or 6 years ago?
yes.
Its small but its nice, part of the football wing. But we are the only school in the ACC I could find that doesnt have a dedicated football complex. Before the new weight room, ALL student athletes were lifting at the old weight room in Manley. It was bad.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
Facilities isn’t the only issue, but it is a big one.
I’ve resigned myself that when the Dome’s successor is built, it absolutely needs to be at Skytop. This would allow for great tailgating, easy highway access, and it would still be “on campus”. Sure, it wouldn’t be right near the quad like the Dome, which is awesome, but it would still be in walking distance if someone felt like it, and they could just run buses like crazy down there.
However, I don’t think the Dome is going anywhere for a while, and I think we could get a ton of life out of it with some upgrades. Ribbon scoreboards are a must. An entirely new audio systems are a must. Actual seats are close to a must. More than anything, they need new locker rooms for the players. The facility tour is one of the few tangible things a recruit gets…and our locker rooms are probably among the worst in the FBS. I’ve been in them, and I will honestly say that my high school football locker room gives Syracuse’s a run for its money. It’s a bit embarrassing.
Again, facilities have little to do with the debacle that was this season, but it is a major issue for the long term prospects of this program.
They could do a really nice job up at Skytop
with an open endzone towards the north looking out at the campus, the city and the lake. I DONT think a downtown stadium would be a good fit, though for a while there I believe Nancy wanted to push one through.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
There was a spot downtown-ish that would have been perfect.
Near where the U-Haul eyesore is and a that new building was built at the intersection of 81 and 690. There was nothing there but some rough old buildings and empty lots. Plenty of space to build a massive sports complex, right at the base of the hill. I actually thought it would have been the best spot for Alliance Bank Stadium.
But, yeah, the best spot is Skytop and traffic to and from the stadium would be so much better. Besides, those parking lots near the dome are going to be needed for new buildings for the university campus as a whole (SU/ESF/Upstate, etc).
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower. But you make more money as a leader.
Oh yeah, add in video boards that are bigger than most HDTVs
although that is probably infeasible due to how the Dome is structured
what the f*** are ribbon scoreboards???
and why are they so great?
Pretty sure we’re talking about the blue ribbon board (above) that would go all along the base of the upper deck. Not exactly certain why this is a big priority, but it would certainly be good for ad revenue and always being in view of the score/clock/stats.
by DMF on Dec 5, 2011 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
Awesome Post
Great research, great points! Any way Dr. Gross can higher you as a consultant, or more. You hit the nail on the head. I don’t think SU wants to promote this because it calls out their shortcomings but this is a catch 22. Without pointing it out we will not get help and make in roads to deal with this very real problem, Dispite a poor year with players execution and with coaching adjustments I still think the right coaching staff is in place. Goes back to the old saying, Buiild it and they will come. Time to invest SU, time to invest fans, or just be happy with that rare upset win once in awhile. Go SU!
Id love for the extra income
and any way to help out SU. But when I saw DOC Gross in the city, he gave me the evil eye. I think he knows I said some not nice things about him a while back. People from SU Athletics definitely read this site and the comments. Ive gotten texts and fb messages after posting on here from people on the hill
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
sounds like a conspiracy to suppress information
and its happening under Boeheim’s watch!
F#&% the Big East
by dacj501 on Dec 5, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
One major recruiting problem that we can't fix
is our location. Quick: who was the last team from a Northeast state to win a national championship?
There is not one northeast team currently in the BCS Top 25. (I’m counting PA as a mid-atlantic, not northeast state, cause, well, that’s what it is).
And the answer to the above question is Syracuse. That’s how long it’s been.
The top football recruits are more often from warm areas, and we are located in Syracuse: the death of all that is warm. I know a large flaw in this theory is that Michigan and Ohio are pretty damn cold places too — but I don’t know, I just don’t think they scream “cold and snowy” in the same way that Syracuse does in the minds of out-of-state recruits.
This isn’t a problem for basketball, but it is a huge problem for football. Hopefully, the ACC move will help with this because we will be grouped in with southeastern teams in recruits’ minds. But only so much. Something tells me BC won’t be gunning for a national championship anytime soon either.
Thats fine
But we will be in a conference. A conference has a conference champion every year. Why couldnt we win that every now and then (with improvements ryan suggested of course). I dont think anyone on here believes this will win us National Championships. But conference championships (in both Big East and ACC) could be quite obtainable and would DEFINITELY satisfy a starving fan base.
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on Dec 5, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
This is the problem with a lot of the SU fan-base:
Quick: who was the last team from a Northeast state to win a national championship?
There isn’t an understanding that a NC simply is not a reasonable goal for this football team. Ever. Conference championships are reasonable to expect at some point, but expecting that SU may one day be in the National Championship game is expecting too much. This isn’t the NFL; the playing field is not close to even. I don’t know that it has as much to do with weather as it does size and money though. Yea, it’s cold in Ohio State and Michigan but they have world-class facilities, humongous stadiums and state money to work with.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
I get your reasonable and reasoned point
but if you can’t root for your team to one day win the National Championship what the hell is the point?
F#&% the Big East
Well I'll always root for them to do that obviously.
But I would never expect it. In college football I think that is an important distinction.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
A replacement Carrier Dome is something I just can't see happening ANYTIME SOON....
SU was gifted the original Carrier Dome by a sizeable funding donation from a NY Senator/Governor. That wont happen in this economic climate. Our endowment took a considerable hit during the recession, and
That being said, spend the money needed on DEDICATED FOOTBALL Facility. The football players live on South, so put it on Skytop. State of the art everything, keep it comparable with other private schools (NW, BC, Wake etc). As much as I would love a new Carrier Dome, its a waste of money considering you only play 6 Football games and 20 or so basketball games a year there. The players practice EVERYDAY in the practice facilities. Spend the money there.
The story is spot on, our facilities suck. If I was a a high profile recruit, I wouldnt go to SU either. Why go somewhere where you are treated like a MAC level program, when you can go somehwere that has Pro level practice, training, health facilities. You reap what you sow.
Didnt JB just say during a press conference recently that the Melo center completely CHANGED their recruiting??
The one question I do have, it seems everyone is in agreement here about the facilities, and that we should expect to be a 5-7 win a season type of team in the interim, if thats so, why is everyone so upset we only won 5 games this year?
Those of us close to the program
knew we could have won a couple more of those games and had an 8 win season. This year was a disappointment. However, I dont think it would be fair to any coaching staff to expect consistent 8 win seasons with the resources we provide to them and they should be judged on a sliding scale. A baseball example, in the Bronx, winning 70 games could cost you your job, but in SD or Pitt it would be a good season. Its as much a factor of the tools you give someone to do their job as it is the person doing the job. We really cant hold Doug to a higher standard until our financial commitment to the program matches our expectations.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
Fellas!
Everyone here is missing the point. NONE of this would ever help the Football team. NONE. The most glarring missing piece in this whole post is Tyrone Wheatley MUST make a hip rap song that sells t-shirts. How does anyone not see this??? Its a proven success!
lol-jk. Great post and agree that at the very least, practice facilities MUST be upgraded. I dont see why we cannot fundraise for the new practice facilities and have a grand opening the year of the ACC move. You could have a nice little slogan about making the move with the Best fACCilities in the ACC. Damn i’m such a corn ball with zero creativity.
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on Dec 5, 2011 11:20 AM EST reply actions
Nothing is going to happen as far as facilities are concerned until we start getting ACC money or rich donors start to pony up the cash. Even with ACC money, you are at least 10 years away from any major improvements to facilities. And with how the economy has been for the past decade, I really don’t see any donors coming forward to really put any money up.
The Fund for Syracuse which is our drive to establish a $1B endowment by 2012 is sitting at $920M. And this initiative has been ongoing for some time.
If you look at the costs for building new football stadiums, it’s going to be really tough to come up with the cash to do it. A new indoor football stadium will easily cost $100-300M. And unless you are planning on accommodating basketball in this facility, you’re going to need to scrape together another $50-100M for a new basketball arena. (I’m actually probably low-balling these numbers). The athletics department just doesn’t have the scratch to make that kind of investment.
We can’t rely on state funding since we are a private institution and we won’t get the public support that we did back when the Dome was built. There is no way that we get any sort of state funding for this.
So you better find some rich alumni that are willing to pony up the cash for it and make a huge deal selling the naming rights to stadiums. The problem is, I don’t think Syracuse has enough rich alumni that are interested in sports to be able to get the money that we need to build these new facilities.
Once you start raising money, you still have to figure out where to put them. I’m not really sure there is a good place for either facility. You really can’t expand anywhere North or West from the current campus. And I don’t get how South Campus is so much easier to get to from the highway.
My Comments-I'll Try To Make The Quick
First, I rec’d this because I thought you did a great job pointing out all the details and covering them. Also because I agree, the facilities need to be upgraded. I have been to Wake’s and sad to say, they are better. I would almost bet my life short of some alumni giving his fortune to fund it, we will never see the Dome gone but it is time to make it look better…as well as the training facilities.
I do think tailgating HAS to be more highly encouraged as well as ample area provided somehow. That is part of the experience and also why so many college and NFL football stadiums are packed. When I lived in Pittsburgh for a few years, fans were out at 3am at the lots already getting stuff started for the game. This has to be addressed and hopefully soon.
Second, I love SU Athletics/Orange All Access as someone who lives in NC and this is sometimes my only access to SU sports. I think they are getting better and you can always voice your concerns via their Twitter account (or email them a copy of this).
My last point would be who is going to pay for this? I was raised in Syracuse and I assure you, the taxpayers in the city and county will not and can’t afford to help. PSL’s would never work because you are not putting enough butts in the seats now as it is. You will need a private donor or group (maybe just call them the 44’s) and empty their wallets. Many of SU’s elite alumni are more concerned with upgrading the educational portions that a football program so this will not be easy. I assure you that if I won more than my share in a lottery, at least 10 million would go to upgrading those but it is easier for me to say since mine is a dream/theory.
Again, great job with the article and let’s hope we find the answers.
"I'm in a Syracuse State Of Mind"
http://www.syracusestateofmind.wordpress.com/
I dont know that it can or will happen
any time soon. No one expects a huge influx of cash and I certainly did not expect this post to be a lightning rod for donations. Any changes would have to be slow growth over time. Thats if we make changes at all. The main point was that expectations have to be in line with investment in the program. Who knows, there may have been a financial study by the athletics department that said something along the lines of:
6-7 win football is as good as we are going to do and the most bang for our buck. Investing wont generate revenue to justify it.I dont know if it happens for college football, but we all saw it when the earnings statements for the Pirates and other “small market” teams were released and they were making millions while crying poor.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
My last point would be who is going to pay for this?
1) Charge fans $5.00 to find out about specific injuries to the players
2) Charge fans $10.00 to learn why players were kicked off the team
3) Instead of donating tickets to games for kids, we should start a fund to donate to the program
4) Sue GRob for damages
Oh, look at me! I'm making people happy. I'm the magical man from. Happyland in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Laaane! Oh, by the way, I was being sarcastic.
by stumpycuse on Dec 5, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Stumpy for Athletic Director!!
Born in '87, Orange fan since '86
I guess I made a twitter, follow @StealthTurkey
by StealthTurkey on Dec 5, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
We are sitting on a cash cow.
That is near a flaming snowball.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
And of course...
the Juli Boeheim Kissing Booth.
Oh, look at me! I'm making people happy. I'm the magical man from. Happyland in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Laaane! Oh, by the way, I was being sarcastic.
West side of the Dome
Blowing out the west side of the Dome won’t work. The University already is working to turn those parking lots into “west campus” with new dorms, a new law school, and other facilities. Construction should start soon.
What about
the grass between the the west wall and Irving? At least we could get locker rooms in there, some food prep, a nice fan area etc by adding an addition between the two corner gates
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
The problem with doing any major work on the dome, is that the dome is a 3 season facility.
We use it in the fall for football, winter for basketball and spring for lacrosse. 3 months in the summer is not enough time for a substantial construction project
Go Cuse!
by nymetsfan1226 on Dec 5, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
One of these things is not like the others...
Lacrosse isn’t a revenue generating sport, so if someone has to lose a season in the Dome, it’s easy to see who it would be.
Or maybe DOC can move all our “home” football games to the NYC area.
I love this conversation, but, at the end of the day, the truth is...
it’s going to be a LONG haul to just get this program back to RESPECTABILITY. Forget about dominating anyone… if we can just be somewhat consistent and competitive, I’d be happy. I think, we as fans, need to temper our expectations with the reality of the financial constraints everyone is struggling with. Marrone may not be the #1 BEST HC in the world, but I truly believe he is the only logical choice for this job. He has high moral and ethical standards, works hard and does the best he can with what he has to work with… AND, he never throws anyone under the bus. For the money and the restrictions he has the work under, he is doing a great job and deserves our support. Certainly, some facility upgrades are in order, but we won’t see anything major soon. We need to accept the situation and let it all unfold in its inevitable, slow evolution.
I believe he is the best HC for Syracuse right now
Any coach with NFL coordinator experience who wants to be our coach, and doesn’t gripe when you make him do it on the cheap, is OK by me. Program is improving, and as long as it keeps doing so, we should be grateful.
F#&% the Big East
wake
not sure if it was mentioned or not, but wake’s stadiums (the baseball stadium is next to the football stadium and basketball arena) are all off campus. ample parking around, so it makes for better tailgating sure.
as far as a downtown stadium, they suck. it’s funny cause i went to college up in buffalo and we always complained that the ralph was so far away and thought it’d be great if it were downtown. now living in charlotte, i can tell you that going to the BOA for panthers games blows as far as tailgating is concerned. no parking, and if you do, it’s usually in a parking deck.
Route 81 location
There has been news that the raised portion of Route 81 through downtown is nearing it’s life expectancy. If they routed north/southbound traffic to 481 and completely removed the raised highway, perhaps there’d be room for some kind of facilites expansion on the west side of the dome. Just a thought.
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