Syracuse Basketball: NIT Season Tip-Off Impressions
The Bernie Fine saga was not nearly as far along just last Friday, but it was already enough of a terrible situation that watching actual Syracuse basketball was a very welcome distraction.
Going into the tournament, we were the unquestioned favorite to win it all. None of the other three teams- Virginia Tech, Stanford, or Oklahoma State- seemed to be a really viable threat, especially at Syracuse City-State stronghold Madison Square Garden. Not to insinuate that Syracuse played to the best of its abilities, because that definitely wasn't the case in New York last week, but I came away relatively impressed with the two teams we played. I'm not sure if Virginia Tech is a tournament team, and I almost hope that they get left on the wrong side of the bubble once again because watching Seth Greenberg complain about it come March is one of my ritualistic springtime pleasures, but they were better than I anticipated. I definitely think Stanford could contend in the very weak PAC-12, and it wouldn't shock me to see them in the big dance.
I didn't expect the Garden to be quite so empty for these games. I figured with Thanksgiving, and the fact that none of the other three teams are local or travel well for basketball, it would be a smallish crowd, but it was pretty striking. I won't complain, because it more or less allowed us to pick our own seats for the games, but it would have been nice to see it fill up more. Probably 90% of the fans who did show up were Syracuse supporters. Virginia Tech had a few hundred fans on Wednesday, and Stanford's crowd was similar on Friday. I only remember seeing one Oklahoma State fan the entire time.
Not seeing Scoop Jardine in the end of the game is still pretty bizarre, since he's been such a mainstay at the point in crunch time over the last two years, but I don't have a major problem with it because Brandon Triche and Dion Waiters has so clearly (to me at least) been our best backcourt. I'm still not going to worry about Scoop, but it is strange to see him struggle to put everything together. There are games where he distributes well (four assists v. no turnovers vs. Virginia Tech) but can't find the scoring touch (two points), and others he scores well (14 points vs. Stanford) but is sloppy with the ball (three assists vs. six turnovers). I'd rather have a pass first point guard, but two points from one of our starting guards, especially when we still don't have a consistent offensive presence from our bigs, isn't going to cut it.
Triche was awesome against Va Tech- 18 points (7/12 from the field, 4/6 from three) with six assists and only two turnovers. After all of the whispers about chemistry issues last year, watching him and Dion work together in the backcourt has been pretty tremendous. Both can bring the ball up the court, and both are making very good decisions for the most part. Triche is definitely more aggressive this year, and it is paying off. His game against Stanford wasn't quite as good, especially when looking at the four turnovers, but he still scored a relatively efficient 11 points on seven shots.
Right now, it's all just Dion Waiters' world and we're watching him retweet it. After a rough opening half against Virginia Tech, it was great to see Waiters rebound and really take over the second half, during which he scored all 11 of his points. Waiters followed it up with a solid 10 point effort against Stanford. I still cringe whenever he shoots a three, and he makes the occasional overzealous play, but he's been very good about reeling himself in and playing smart basketball.Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Michael Carter-Williams is really in the plans for this season. I think he'll continue to get playing time, and I hope he impresses against Eastern Michigan and the rest of the mid-majors we'll play before conference games start, but unless we have a comfortable lead, I don't expect MCW to get many key minutes from here on out.
Kris Joseph seems to be almost 100% back from his health issues. I don't think he's played this consistently well since before the concussion last year. He's scoring in a variety of ways, and he's rebounding incredibly well - pulling down 10 boards against Virginia Tech and nine against Stanford. Kris is the only guy who I see being kept in the lineup in key situations at all costs right now.
Virginia Tech was a patented great CJ Fair game. He scored efficiently, he grabbed a lot of boards and played smart basketball. He wasn't quite as effective against Stanford, but he still put up 10 and five. Even when he's not at his best, Fair will rarely put a game in jeopardy. He just doesn't make bad mistakes.
It was weird to see James Southerland get such limited minutes considering how well he had played prior to the MSG games. James didn't score in the two games, and only grabbed one rebound in each, but I'm not ready to write him off. We were in trouble in both games, and I don't think Boeheim thought we could keep Kris and CJ off the floor. I expect James to get a lot of minutes against EMU.
Rakeem Christmas is entering into the territory that Fab Melo was stuck in last year. He's just not going to play very much, especially if he makes mistakes early. It won't get easier for him to see minutes if CJ keeps playing as well as he has, and if Southerland starts to heat up again. I almost expect CJ to eventually replace Christmas in the starting lineup, but I'm not sure if Boeheim would do that considering the fact that Melo started almost every game last year.
On Fab Melo, how great was it to see him contribute on a big stage? He didn't rebound very well against Virginia Tech, only grabbing two during the game, but he also blocked five (!) shots. A lot of the blocks weren't even near the basket, he's been great about deflecting mid-range jumpers. He was much better on the glass against Stanford, grabbing nine rebounds, and blocked another three shots and played 32 minutes. I don't know if any of us could have fathomed Fab playing over 30 minutes, but he seemed to do it quite easily on Friday. Fab scored six points in each game. I think we'll take that.
Baye Keita's been struggling recently, and was held off that stat sheet aside from seven total fouls and one rebound in the two games. I expect him to be okay, but we definitely need him to play well, because Fab isn't going to play this well every night, and we will see some foul trouble at the center spot.
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Just remember
that a lot of guys don’t play much their freshman year, then get a 2nd year bump. Of course the man that guided most of these players just got fired yesterday. So now I just don’t know what to expect.
Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won 10 f-- games, not 10
I just think
Rak is out of shape. I said this in previous posts that it seems other players would joke around with Rak about him being lazy. It was all good natured, but one of those things I noticed. If Rak is lazy, then he wont play much this year or next (i.e., Dejuan Coleman).
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on Nov 28, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
DC 2.0
Isn’t exactly a paragon of physical fitness either. Some people are just “big boned”, as they say, but he could easily be next year’s poster child for “if he dropped 30 pounds…”
I don’t think Rak is out of shape. I mean, he’s 6’9, 220. So it’s not as if he’s carrying much, if any, extra weight. Of course that’s not a precise measure of his cardio conditioning, but the two are closely linked. I think Rak is just caught in what my HS coach would call his “scared deer” phase. He’s used to being the biggest, most athletic guy around. Now he’s not even that in practice. It happens to most every college player and I think bigs get the worst of it. He’s out there trying to not to make mistakes and, as a result, isn’t doing much of anything else. Once he learns that not getting that critical rebound or giving up that back door lob or not closing out hard is much more likely to get him benced than missing this or that shot or committing this or that foul, he;ll be OK
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 28, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
but like you said, weight v height does not determine cardio at all. And maybe I shouldnt have said “out of shape”. Lazy could also be attributed too practice habits as well. And I see what your saying about scared deer phase. Maybe he is just so worried about making a mistake and getting pulled that he isnt as aggressive. But I dont buy the whole- used to being the biggest of bunch. These high school all americans play boatloads of AAU ball, going up against guys just as big as them. So, i’m not really buying that. I dont have any thing against Rak and understand that he is just a freshman and this is very common for freshman to go through. I just thought i’d point out that if Rak is lazy, then he’ll never get quality minutes. Practice doesnt make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect.
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on Nov 28, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
AAU ball
Yeah, the competition is bigger/stronger/better there, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say there are “boatloads” out there. Size and basketball talent don’t necessarily go hand in hand.
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 28, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Our zone is good to begin with
but if Fab can be athletic enough to start disrupting those shots from the foul line, I think we could pitch shut outs.
Lacks knowledge or information sufficient to form a belief
by Rocket Ship Science on Nov 28, 2011 2:19 PM EST reply actions
Attendance
Was at both games and I agree that attendance wasn’t what I thought it would be. We played in the Coaches v Cancer in the Garden 2 years back and I think the attendance was better because 2 of the other teams were more of a draw – North Carolina (at the time) and Ohio State. Both those schools were highly ranked with active alumni population in the NY/NJ metro area. Other than SU, no one really brought anything to the table this year. Still was a great Orange crowd and during the latter part of the 2nd half of Friday’s game, the place was really rocking.
I think Rak
starting is fulfilling a recruiting promise that if he comes he will start right away, so I doubt James jumps him.
Before the last 6 min of the Stanford game Kris was GONE. Couldnt buy a shot, couldnt get open, wasnt crashing the boards, he team mates were not looking for him. It was bad. Yes he won the game for us at the end, but for most of the game he was the reason it seemed like we were playing 4 on 5.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
I dont think the question is Southerland jumps Rak.
CJ is more of a threat to Rak’s starting spot.
Cuse fan in ACC country.
"Before the last 6 min of the Stanford game Kris was GONE."
I think that was right about when he was hit in the back on a transition pass.
If it that wasn’t him, I apologize, but I’m pretty sure he was moving up court in front of the scorer’s table and someone hit him in the back with the ball. That seems to be about the point that SU started playing.
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower. But you make more money as a leader.
It was him
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 28, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
I went to MSG to see Cuse in the NIT Season Tip-off tourney around Thanksgiving in 2007...
the crowd was tiny then too. It’s not unusual for that weekend.
Agree
the only people in the city were shoppers in for black friday. I wanted to bring some guys I went to school with, but they all left for the weekend.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
It was pretty cool actually
because my dad and I ended up sitting really close. Syracuse played Texas A&M in the second game that day. During the first game a bunch of the guys on TA&M sat in my row to chill and watch. DeAndre Jordan is a giant human being. And a bunch of Cuse guys were sitting a few rows in front of me as was Lazarus Sims.
Great Review as always Dan
And as always, spot on. Glad you got to see the games first hand.
The lack of offensive spark early in the games is my only concern or takeaway from them. I would have expected us to take a lead early (not as big as the previous games) and maintain it with all the shooters and scorers on our roster, but not seeing that makes me worry. I feel like JB hasn’t decided quite yet what to do with minutes distribution, but I think we saw our future main (not starting) lineup out there with Fab, Triche, Waiters, CJ and KrisJo
I also couldn’t help but think that the recent distraction has caused a lack of focus but I have nothing to base that on.
They got the Ws they really needed to, but those Ws only made more concerned, not less, about Florida coming up. Coming out cold and letting them get ahead is not going to be good for any involved, cause they will absolutely take advantage of us.
I am glad we came up big on defense in both games however. I couldn’t really ask for much more, and I think both Stanford and VTech both had better than usual nights for scoring.
Scoop's contributions
Will be much more in the “veteran leadership” and “lockeroom prescence” categories rather than on the stat sheets, I think. I’ll take assists and few turnovers from him over scoring any day. And, though I can’t say for sure, I’d bet that Scoop deserves a lot of the credit for talking Dion into staying. I’ll agree that the team can’t affoird for him to be a complete statistical void but as long as his play is a net positive (and it ususally is), he adds enough value to the team in other ways to justify his starting role and whatever minutes he gets. PLus, even though he hasn’t had the crunch time minutes yet this season, we know that he doesn’t shy away from those moments. So, on occasions where Dion/Triche/KJ don’t show up for some reason, except Scoop to be there to pick up the slack.
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
I was there on Wednesday. I think atmosphere was wierd becuase there was no band...
…and no cheer/dance team. It felt like watching a Terrible NBA game (Nets at TWolves). The bright side was after about 2 minutes we walked right down to the first row of the 100 level and enjoyed the game.
We saw John Wallace sitting with the coaches families, and Hakeem Warrick sitting courtside under the basket.
The teams werent national, thats why the tiny crowds.

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