Bernie Fine Allegations: I Hope ESPN Isn't Playing A Dangerous Game
The worst thing we can all do right now with the Bernie Fine allegations is make a decision and stamp it with a seal of approval.
"The accusers looks shady in their interview, they're full of s***!"
"Bernie Fine should be fired right now and so should Jim Boeheim!"
Given how early this is into the (second) investigation into the alleged crimes, who knows what's still to be uncovered. Or not uncovered. The whole thing has absolutely forced Syracuse fans to look at the way we reacted to the Penn State situation and wonder if we made our choices too soon.
There's one detail to the whole thing that keeps nagging at me, however. It was the first thing that popped into my head this morning and and it's been driving me crazy ever since.
The fact that ESPN broke this story is what's giving a lot of people pause.
If 60 Minutes or The New York Times came out with an independent, investigative story on these allegations, almost all of us would take them at their word. The kind of integrity they bring with them instills a sense of trust with readers that say, "we wouldn't be telling you about this if we weren't sure it was true."
Let's face it, the same cannot be said of ESPN. And that's what worries me.
Now, if you've been reading this site long enough, you already know how I feel about ESPN's journalistic integrity. That said, we've always looked at specific arms of the Worldwide Leader octopus to be a little more trustworthy than others. I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of the mouth of Colin Cowherd but it's easier for me to put my faith in Outside The Lines. Even then, however, we've all heard enough stories to give us pause.
Will Leitch's book God Save the Fan does a great rundown of how ESPN orchestrated the entire John Ameachi gay NBA controversy back in 2007. Ameachi's book was published by ESPN Books and the company decree turned every TV and radio talking head into a mouthpiece to promote the gay angle. Radio hosts asked every NBA-related guest what their thoughts were and eventually, someone (Tim Hardaway) took the inevitable bait. Then, ESPN's many tentacles spent the next few weeks discussing that ad nauseum.
ESPN can go the other way as well. Remember the brouhaha when they decided not to cover the Ben Rothliesberger sexual assault allegations? It was a huge story about a major athlete in the country's biggest sports league...how could the biggest sports news network in America not provide full coverage?
Here was ESPN's statement at the time:
"At this point, we are not reporting the allegations against Ben Roethlisberger because no criminal complaint has been filed. As far as we know, this is a civil lawsuit that Roethlisberger has yet to address publicly."
Feel free to think of all the times that didn't stop ESPN from reporting.
By all accounts, ESPN botched the initial coverage of the Penn State Scandal. ESPN didn't own the story and there's nothing ESPN hates more than not owning a massive sports story. If you were on Twitter the night of the riots, you know the only thing that people were complaining about more than the students was ESPN's coverage. They didn't even have a truck in Happy Valley and were forced to pilfer coverage from other networks.
Considering it was, and is, one of the biggest sports-related stories of our time, that's embarassasing.
And so, while I'm not trying to say this is exactly what happened, I'd like to pull out my Jump To Conclusions mat and take a spin.
1. ESPN executives were righteously pissed off with the network's handling of the coverage.
2. The story got so big, so quickly that ESPN has no ownership over it.
3. A decree went out internally to find "the next big sexual assault scandal."
4. OTL remembered the Bernie Fine accusations made back in 2003. Accusations that were investigate by the Syracuse Police, Syracuse Post-Standard and ESPN itself and found to be lacking in evidence or corroboration.
5. A new victim suddenly emerges now in 2011 at the perfect time so that ESPN and OTL can re-promote the abuse allegations, create the next big sexual assault scandal and, this time, own it.
NOW, I will reiterate that I'm not saying that's what happened. And if it comes out that Bernie Fine did indeed do what he's accused of, I hope that the proper legal process takes its course.
What I am saying is that, based on what I know of ESPN and based on their reputation, I wouldn't be surprised.
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New York Times has integrity?
See their Duke lacrosse reaction
by cuse2012 on Nov 18, 2011 11:25 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
If you've got time, buy my book "How To Grow An Orange", visit SeanKeeley.com and follow me on Twitter and Facebook.
by Sean Keeley on Nov 18, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Pete Thamel
He works for the New York Times, is a Syracuse alum and has a lot of integrity. Like he posted above, sometimes you have to watch the source at the outlet but I would trust Pete’s word over just about anyone else int the business right now.
As far as my opinion on this Bernie Fine subject, I reserve judgement until the proper due process has been met in this case. We have seen part of it but we are within 24 hours of the news breaking and a lot can still happen.
"I'm in a Syracuse State Of Mind"
http://www.syracusestateofmind.wordpress.com/
by Orange Chuck on Nov 18, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Thamel is very good.
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
RESTORE 44!
by kotite4ever on Nov 18, 2011 11:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not that it matters here
But he’s also been the only one who’s been mostly right during all the expansion talk rumors. He has good sources – including Boeheim, since he was the first one to get him on the phone.
http://cusepulp.blogspot.com/
by Lots of Pulp on Nov 18, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
seriously
Ask John McCain and the NYTimes “reporting” of his affair with a lobbyist.
er... FYI John McCain had an affair...
thats a fact; and the campaign was prepared for the allegation and slandered the NYT back. There was no one who would come out and help the NYT reporter on the story,,, and em the Dems & the media wanted to run against McCain point blank period.
could be true Sean
I want it to be true about ESPN’s cred, this whole thing is awful for everyone, all sides….
then i read about oklahoma state’s womens head coach and his assistant dying in a plane crash today 10 years after the school went through a similar tragedy with the men’s team, so depressing and I feel bad for them too, alot of people all around are hurting
This Friday has never bummed me out more, its just gonna be an all around depressing weekend…
Since the early 1990's I have not been able to get Mike Hopkins' bloody face out of my brain. I don't remember what game it was but I'll never forget that as my first memory of SU basketball. Mike Hopkins, bloody face, bloody nose, all for the love of Syracuse.
Haha amen, brother.
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
RESTORE 44!
by kotite4ever on Nov 18, 2011 11:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I tweeted this morning...
…If the allegations against Fine are true he needs to hang. If they are false heads need to roll in Bristol.
I just don’t understand how a story that no one, even ESPN, would touch with a 10-foot poll suddenly becomes credible overnight. It’s not like we are accusing Fine of recruiting violations, we are accusing him of one of the two or three most heinous crimes a human can commit. I hope ESPN isn’t playing for ratings with Fine’s life.
Point of clarification
The Syracuse Police did not investigate anything back in 2003 because the statute of limitations had expired. However, the University did investigate and found no corroborating witnesses or evidence.
I don’t know why the police would be investigating this time, unless either the statute has changed or the “new” accusation says something happened more recently. Any New York legal professionals have a take?
I wonder
How is the statute of limitations expired if the guy says he was abused until he was 27? The statute might limit sexual abuse of a minor to 15 years after their 18th birthday. What about sexual assault against an adult.
But that being said, assuming the statute of limitations is expired for all potential charges involving this one alleged vidtim, there are only two things to be gained
1) Expose a sexual predator to encourage other victims to come forward.
2) Perform a character assassination with the intent of filing a civil suit ($$$)
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 18, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
*5 years after 18th b-day
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 18, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
At 27 you're not being abused
You’re gay!!!
by YankeeMePleeze on Nov 18, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Enough of this
Stop trying to get into the heads of a (alleged) victim.
wow, please stop
you’re making a fool of yourself and the Nunes community
http://cusepulp.blogspot.com/
my thoughts are maybe the dates of abuse changed after he learned of the statute of limitations
of course, i also think davis is lying…
"We don't lose hat and t-shirt games" - Tedy Bruschi
The police have an obligation to investigate to the extent they are able to uncover
any allegations of acts which DO fall within the SOL. If they don’t, they’re no better than State College P.D. What I wonder is if they looked into the issue of chargeable acts in 2003. If they didn’t they surely could have…
All of that said, I don’t know that I’ve read anywhere that the PD did zero inquiry in 2003. All I’ve read is that according to Jones he was told there was nothing they could do. Can anyone confirm that the SPD did NOT investigate at all?
I'm getting ready to change my birthplace to Syracuse.
I'd like to think that anyone else would have a bit more investigation
Schwarz is pushing this hard but he doesn’t have anything other than the accusation, which he just keeps repeating.
Cowherd is spending more time on Tebow than anything else.
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower. But you make more money as a leader.
by Fly Rodder on Nov 18, 2011 11:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Funny
It’s not even the top story of the day on ESPN. Of course what happened last night in Oklahoma is very sad.
Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won 10 f-- games, not 10
by PoetryInMoten on Nov 18, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
My thoughts exactly!
This is exactly what I think was/is going down, if in fact the allegations are false. Regurgitate the ESPN hate towards Syracuse in the post-ACC move announcement era and you also have motive for ESPN. If in fact this is what went down, I hope ESPN gets sued for many, many millions.
by michael.blume1 on Nov 18, 2011 11:51 AM EST reply actions
ESPN financed the ACC move
Why would they want to screw with it?
Conspiracy theories collapsing…
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
Newhouse
Schwartz is on campus “reporting” the story. Maybe he can stop by Newhouse and audit a class on journalistic ethics while he is in town.
by OldMan21 on Nov 18, 2011 12:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Prolly why he's out to get them
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 18, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Premature
Even if the allegations are true, this ridiculously premature report now subjects the victims to being called out as liars by a whole lot of people. This is exactly what timid victims fear, their worst nightmares being played out in the national media.
ESPN should have let the legal process run its course before letting the cat out of the bag. Who knows if its true or not at this stage, but either way, someone is going to come out looking very bad.
Both "victims" couldn't wait to get in front of the cameras.
You don’t see that very offen in sexual assault cases.
Of course, you don’t see a grown man claiming that someone touched his peepee until he was 27 years old very often either.
Syracuse will own ESPN if these are false accusations
ESPNs notorious for just blurting out accusations without doing a “real” investigation. It’s easy to say a “source” said something. When Bernie is cleared of these false accusations, I hope the school sues the pants off ESPN for defamation. They should then take ESPN and incorporate into Newhouse School and add Phase #4. Maybe then some accurate and true jounalism can get done. Also troubling is the fact that once a story is out to public opinion, ESPN never takes the time to go back and correct the mistakes of poor jounalism with a simple apology to those involved. ESPN needs to act with care and take more responsibility since it is a serious matter to those involved….and by the way ESPN, Tebow is Winning! so shut up already!
I doubt it
If (when?) the allegations are proven false, the university will want this to go away as quickly as possible. Getting involved in a slander suit with ESPN/Disney/The Evil Empire won’t help that.
That and, as much as it’s clear that Schwartz thinks Fine is guilty, they haven’t reported anything false. No one at ESPN has stated unequivocally that Fine did these things. They’ve merely said that Davis and Lang are making accusations. All of the ESPN reporting is 100% true (despite the thinly veiled implications), which precludes them from liability.
Courts in general will stand by a media outlet’s right to report news, even if that news ends up being untrue. Sure, the gatekeepers at ESPN should be more responsible than to run with a story based on, “this guy and his brother said…”, but I doubt it’d be ground for any kind of legal action against ESPN. If it were, then its unlikely they would have let it go to air. I’d be willing to bet that them squashing the story in 2003 had much less to do with potential legal action than it did with journalistic integrity. Apparently whomever is in charge at ESPN has none.
If anyone is liable, it’s Davis and Lang, but any lawyer will tell you that the first rule of tort law is that you don’t sue people who don’t have any money. I’m inclined to think that’s the case wit Davis and Lang.
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 18, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
And besides,
The allegations aren’t against SU, they’re against Fine personally. If anyone would pwn ESPN after this, it would be Bernie. The Orange Network, anyone?
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 18, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
It's funny
People complain about there being too many lawsuits.
But then people always rush to recommend that someone sue someone else if they have been wronged.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
This is different.
Fine’s reputation is in shatters even if every paper in the country prints a front page story saying he didn’t do it. He will forever be known as a pedophile no matter the outcome and he will probably have to retire at best. This is exactly why defamation laws were created.
(assuming the charges are false and ESPN did not do their due diligence in vetting the story)
"We don't lose hat and t-shirt games" - Tedy Bruschi
Chances of actually proving defamation against ESPN in this case would be low.
Schwarz keeps relying on “Jones said…” etc. It’s all on the accuser(s) if the accusations are found to be untrue. And if that’s the case, good luck collecting a judgment.
I'm getting ready to change my birthplace to Syracuse.
Exactly
And even if Fine coudl prove defamation, he’d have to be able to prove damages as well. He’s not losing his job, not losing any pay, nothing like that. He’s just being embarassed, which isn’t enough to win a judgement in court.
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 18, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
In defamation, if he can show that ESPN should have known that the charges were false
and didn’t do enough to double-check the story (which considering they had so many reasons to not go with the story in 03 and how not credible those men appeared means he has a strong case, imo), he can get punitive damages which you don’t need to show loss of income, etc. to get. Punitive damages are where the real $$ is anyway.
"We don't lose hat and t-shirt games" - Tedy Bruschi
And defamation is about reputation
I’d say his reputation is pretty much destroyed
"We don't lose hat and t-shirt games" - Tedy Bruschi
Fine is a public figure
It’s very, very difficult for a public figure to win on a defamation claim. Not only would he have to prove that the charges are false, he’d have to prove that ESPN either knew that the charges were false, or acted with a reckless disregard with respect to the truthfulness of their reporting. That’s a high bar, and they’ve left enough caveats in their reporting that I don’t think he could meet it.
(Though the only time I learned about defamation law in my career was while I was in class at SU Law. So this may be off by more than a bit)
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
I know the standard for public figure
I described it accurately in my previous post right above this one, I just didn’t throw in the legalese of “actual malice.” I mean, considering the reasons that even ESPN admitted it didn’t run the story in the first place, add in the Penn State stuff and how they were skewered for being behind the ball, there is a legitimate argument that ESPN acted with a reckless disregard for the truth in an effort to get the scoop this time around. I would feel confident making that argument in court.
"We don't lose hat and t-shirt games" - Tedy Bruschi
By the way, the PS
Was reporting that ESPN REACHED OUT TO DAVIS after the PSU scandal hit. Disgusting work by ESPN to create news.
NOT TEN!!
That's not what Schwartz said
He said that Lang called Davis and said the PSU scandal made him emotional about being abused by Bernie and what could he do about it. Davis said, “We can call ESPN, I have the reporter’s number.”
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower. But you make more money as a leader.
by Fly Rodder on Nov 18, 2011 12:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
not true
Schwarz says “we were contacted by…Lang” which does not preclude Schwarz reaching out to Davis and saying, hey, maybe with this PSU thing your brother will back you up now. Have him give me a call…
I don’t know who initiated contact, but that’s the point…
F#&% the Big East
If ESPN did not report it...
…someone else would have. It is the fact that authorities are reopening the invetsigation that is the story. They have not repotred anything that is false as an investigation has been opened based upon the allegations that are being made. I don’t think ESPN was hunting for a pedophile story. This is truly a situation where you have to wait it out. You just can’t draw any conclusions here at all. And while you want your school to come out and defend against nonsense claims, you also want to be carefull from a legal standpoint of saying too much just in case there is something there. The official University statements should be all that is mentioned by the Univerisity or Boeheim. He should say nothing more. Former players can say what they want but the school does not want to position itself for massive liability if there is something here. This story seems very suspect and I don’t know anything of Fine to comment either way. If you would have told me Paterno would be involved in a pedophile cover-up last month I would never have believed it so this stuff definately happens. I does not appear there can be any criminal liability against Fine if the accusations are true with respect to the two individuals as the statute of limitations is long gone. I suspect they are doing it to see if there are others that are more recent, or if they determine the allegations are true as to these two, the school can then act. Although not a Syracuse fan, this is not something anyone wants to see happen at all and hopefully the investigation will be swift, complete and accurately determine it did not occur.
disagree
I don’t think anyone would’ve put as much into this story as ESPN has. They’re making a bigger story out of this than they should, especially considering there’s so many holes in the accuser’s story.
That said, fuck ESPN. They were a shitty network before this, now they disgust me. I refuse to watch ESPN from here on out.
by pegs on Nov 18, 2011 12:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
your going to miss some good games come january
by brooklynotto on Nov 18, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
I never said anything about steaming sites
I fully endorse anything that screws over ESPN, of ratings and viewers.
:D
by pegs on Nov 18, 2011 1:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Who watches SportsCenter anyway?
It was useful in the 1980’s when it was the sole source for sports.
It was entertaining in the 1990s because they tried to be funny.
It was irrelevant in the 2000s with the Internet. I am not waiting until 11 to see the score. I want to know NOW. And i really don’t care what Obnoxious Guy A has to say about it.
In the 2010s… it is the hula hoop.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
Couldn't agree any more with this.
Any and all outlets were going to report this story based on the reopening of the investigation. Again: This is a huge story, especially given the timing, and any outlet was going to pick it up. ESPN just happened to be on this in 2003, so they had a leg up.
The “reputation” of ESPN is now based solely on this hive mind amongst blogs and blog comments and Twitter and Deadspin and where ever else on the interwebs that we must shit on every and all things that they do. To be fair, they’re not victims; they’ve definitely made some mistakes in their coverage. But regardless of what or how they cover things, at this point, everyone’s going to find something to attack, because they’re the biggest thing going and yeah their NFL shows suck and so fuck them they’re the worst and making everything up to sell newspap— oh, right.
Take the Penn State thing, for example. Say ESPN dispatched a fleet of cameramen and whatnot from the start. Would we be shitting on them for overdoing it? And couldn’t we say that maybe they didn’t dispatch the fleet because they wanted to make sure not to overdo it on such a sensitive story? I haven’t diligently kept up with things at Happy Valley from the very start, so I honestly don’t know. But the point is, it doesn’t matter, because people were going to find a way to blame them for something one way or the other. We’re literally questioning their credibility now because they didn’t have enough cameras during the riot so we had to change the channel to CNN for a bit.
So if we’re going to ask for patience in this story, to make sure no one overreacts and condemns a man who very well may be innocent, why can’t we do the same for ESPN? If ESPN fucks up, then skewer them. If Fine turns out to be guilty, skewer him. And I know it’s tough to sit here and wait for things to play out without commenting on something and expressing anger in some fashion, especially given the way 24/7 news cycles now work. But I for one plan on waiting for all the facts and information before needlessly bashing anything or anyone.
(Also, this has nothing to do with me writing at a UConn blog. None. Would say the same thing at a, i don’t know, Kansas State blog.)
by UConnBlog Justin on Nov 18, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
My problem is since PSU blew up,
everyone is drawing a parallel to Syracuse. Not even close to the same scenario.
Born in '87, Orange fan since '86
by StealthTurkey on Nov 18, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
No
some SU FANS are drawing that parallel.
Others aren’t.
Axe has a run down on why different.
My blog has a run down as to why different.
And I have yet to hear anyone say that they are close to the same.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
Wrong, inital report drew comparison to Penn St.
Before the school released the statement about its investigation
ESPN was the only one who knew about accuser #2, so someone else would not have run it
This is on them, for better or worse.
I'm getting ready to change my birthplace to Syracuse.
The Important Bit: Davis' Mom won't corroborate his story
From the ESPN article but hidden all the way at the end:
“she said he did not go on trips when an airplane flight was required because he didn’t like to fly. The 1987 Final Four, where Davis said he went with Fine, was in New Orleans.”
Even his own mother is giving a conflicting take on the events, shouldn’t that be a red flag for anyone looking into this case?
Of course
Boeheim just said that he recalls Davis traveling with the team. So I guess now JB is lying too.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
he said traveling
NOT FLYING.
reading comprehension, buddy. Get your facts straight.
This is about Davis’s comment about New Orleans. Which has seemingly been exposed as utter bullhorn.
by pegs on Nov 18, 2011 1:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
and if you didn't understand that
I’m referring to the fact that teams do tend to travel by bus, when the opposing team is close enough.
by pegs on Nov 18, 2011 1:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought you were talking to my dog
His name is Buddy.
After 3,800 posts, people know me around here as a “tell it like it is” Syracuse fan.
If you think that this kid’s mother is going to undo his credibility, that is nuts. Maybe he didn’t like flying because he was abused more often the farther away they were and she is thinking of post-1987.
I don’t like flying either and avoid it. But I have.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
Yes and I respect that in you, ez,
but when people lie, especially stupid people, they don’t always cover the bases. She may have unintentionally blew his ruse.
Born in '87, Orange fan since '86
by StealthTurkey on Nov 18, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think the mother
not corroborating his story speaks more to his character than anything else.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
I get the feeling there's not a whole lot of good going on within their own family
I think the mom might be out of it.
If I were to say something like this
my mother would have my back 100%. Even if she wasnt sure, she would not contradict me to the media.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
She said he never went because he refuses to fly.
That would be quite the memory slip
"We don't lose hat and t-shirt games" - Tedy Bruschi
Refuses?
Davis’ mother, Cathy Pitts, said Thursday she didn’t know about any of the allegations until he did an interview with ESPN in 2003.
“I was very upset,” she said of learning of the allegations then. “I wished I knew when he was little. I would have done something then. There was nothing I could do after the fact. He was older. He said he got it together, and he talked to a priest and got all kinds of guidance and counseling. He said he’s fine. I believe him. He seems to be fine.”
She said when Davis was young, he “was with Bernie Fine quite a bit.” She said he traveled with the team extensively, though she said he did not go on trips when an airplane flight was required because he didn’t like to fly. The 1987 Final Four, where Davis said he went with Fine, was in New Orleans.
She said she was unaware he was talking about this in recent days. “I really think he wants to be left alone,” she said.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
not liking flying = choosing not to fly = refusing to fly
summantics
"We don't lose hat and t-shirt games" - Tedy Bruschi
good for you
I tell it like it is, too
by pegs on Nov 18, 2011 2:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well
My facts are straight. Until someone says that Davis wasn’t in New Orleans, his mother’s statement doesn’t prove or disprove anything.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
OK, then how did he get to Hawaii
canoe? river boat?? maybe on a yellow submarine.
by YankeeMePleeze on Nov 18, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I heard Boeheim
saying he “traveled with the team” but no one, other than the accuser saying he went to Hawaii. Can you find a quote (no sarcasm, just curious)?
www.CuseRugby.com
www.SyracuseRugby.com
give me a moment to retrace. think I read it in one of the espn stories
by YankeeMePleeze on Nov 18, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
play the video in the link
listen around the 2:04 mark
by YankeeMePleeze on Nov 18, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
I played it twice
but I couldn’t find it. Did Schwartz say it?
I heard “tournaments” which could be MSG…
www.CuseRugby.com
www.SyracuseRugby.com
Simple
He flew and his mother is wrong.
The report is fair because it shows that there is evidence running contrary to the accuser.
But part of credibility is not just honesty—it is being a good historian. His mother may be wrong, even though she is honest. And we have no idea whether she was even in a good place to know all the facts back then. This isn’t a sitcom from the 1960’s. The whole gist of this is that Fine was a surrogate parent. Not sure you get that situation when your real parent is doing a top notch job.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
I wonder how he got to the Maui Invitational as well...
"We don't lose hat and t-shirt games" - Tedy Bruschi
it is a huge red flag
Yet I’ve only seen it being mentioned twice.
Because it makes too much sense. And things that make sense are usually ignored by people.
by pegs on Nov 18, 2011 1:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think the question that needs to be asked
Is did Davis, in fact, go to New Orleans in 1987? That’s the only time that I’ve seen a specific time and place mentioned. It’s also a claim that can be factually checked. Did he have a plane ticket? The implication was that, even though Davis was a guest of Fine’s, they didn’t share a room. He would have been 18 in ‘87, so did he have his own room room registered under his name? If not, who did he bunk with, if not Fine? It’s also a significant event that is unlikely to be forgotten, as opposed to the other alleged instances. Davis specificallly said that he was abused during the 1987 Final Four. If it can be proved that he wasn’t even there, then, well, his creditbility goes straight down the shitter (sorry Sean).
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 18, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Wait...I thought Davis was 39 now.
doesn’t that make him 14 or 15 in 1987? Regardless, flight manifests (and hotel registers, too) from that time should still be accessible. Syracuse charters now…I’d think they were chartering then, too.
And what's a 14/15 year old kid going to do at the Final Four
while his alleged abuser is busy working, you know, as a basketball coach?
He says he would get to places a day before Laurie Fine…so he’s flying by himself but his mother says he doesn’t like to fly?
And was Bernie Fine really the King of Syracuse ONE year after being hired as an assistant? That’s when Lang claims his abuse began…1976 or so.
It just doesn’t add up.
You're right
My bad, my math was off.
That complicates things. Jim B said that the only time Davis travelled with the team was to babysit Fine’s kids and that was only when when Davis was 18 or so. So, if Davis ws 14-15 in ’87, someone is lying.
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 18, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Wait a minute...
So fear of airplanes was a valid reason not to hang with the team, but fear of being violated wasn’t? Gimme a break. I’m done with this ‘story’, and BTW, ESPN can bite me. We can talk again when something resembling evidence or corroboration arise…which after twenty-something years seems highly unlikely.
Tim Welsh
Tim Welsh said he roomed with Bernie Fine when on the road. Did Fine have his own hotel room sometimes, and not others?
Welsh wasn't around until '88
But Davis also claimed he was with the team in Maui in 1990. The whole thing is full of holes…Not to say it’s automatically false, but there’s a lot of questions.
Die-hard Mets fan and blogger: http://www.thekingsofqueens.wordpress.com
Not sure if this is the best timing for a post like this
Can’t we say that there hasn’t been a ton of evidence in the reporting, without going on to begin the ESPN conspiracy theory?
I am in agreement that the reporting by Schwarz hasn’t been as objective as a journalist should be. And I don’t really like ESPN just like many of you don’t.
I think we can mention this lack of objectivity, but don’t have to go on to print and then justify the jump to conclusions list.
We should wait till a few more details come out before all of this conversation takes place.
http://cusepulp.blogspot.com/
There was also the whole Mike Leich-Craig James situation
ESPN helped to railroad him when he didn’t want to put with Craig James’ scumbag son, and were arm and arm with James to get him fired. Then they nailed one of their own employees who co-authored Leich’s book. If these allegations turn out to be false ESPN needs to pay.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Nov 18, 2011 4:05 PM EST reply actions
This sorry guy from ESPN that broke the story
is really a something. Anyone who would sit in front of Paterno’s house for a week has got to be nuts. Now he wants to defame another school and if you do some digging, you will find crap. I have no idea if Bernie Fine is bad or good. But, the way ESPN has presented this case shows no class and the power of gossip TV. After looking at the video of both brothers, I have come to the conclusion that ESPN will take a tough hit on this case. And I cannot wait for THAT to come down.
Just caught the interview of the alleged victims from outside the lines...
Without casting too much judgement, neither of them were very specific of what had happened. Maybe it was the espn venue, but in the Grand Jury inditement the victims were able to tell you what game they were going to when it happened; what actually occurred; how Sandusky would test them by putting his hand on their legs; etc.
These guys are being really vague and not giving any information that can be fact checked, the only factual detail is that he may or may not have been at the 1987 Final Four. Laying out a blanket statement like, “He’d touch me through my mesh shorts,” isn’t something that can be proven or disproven in a court of law. Has any of these investigative reporters looked into the the Final Four statement? Can they prove he was or wasn’t there?
I want to be fair and hold back my judgment, but these guys are NOT making it hard to dismiss these allegations. I hope that we can come to a resolution soon and that this does not drag out for months. I also hope that we get some sort of definitive resolution, like what happens when the only answer we get is they don’t have an answer?
If this is a farce, I hope they burn them as bad as Bernie will burn if it’s true.
I've said this a few times on ESPN.
Everything they say is yanked out of a Lifetime movie. No actual specific event or day.
Born in '87, Orange fan since '86
by StealthTurkey on Nov 18, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
the guy couldn't even remember what he felt when it happened
he said something along the lines of “disgusted, i guess.”
"We don't lose hat and t-shirt games" - Tedy Bruschi

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