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Triche vs. Waiters- Fordham Rams


Every season there's always at least one battle between a starter and a reserve over who should be starting.  A couple years ago, it was Triche and Scoop.  Last season it was Fab and BMK.  This year's debate looks to me Triche vs. Waiters.

Let's be clear that I'm not bashing one or the other.  I'm comfortable with either one having the job.  They both have their pros and cons.  Triche is a 3-year starter and a solid player but lacks consistency.  Waiters is the more talented of the two but had a tendency to play selfish ball.  And this isn't a "(Fill in the Blank) should be starting" rant, either.  Just a dialog on what's likely to be a season long story.  This will be the first of game-by-game comparisons to see who the Orange nation thinks should be the starter.

Star-divide

First, the stat lines. (Full Boxscore)

                                                                          MIN         FGM-A       3PM-A     FTM-A  OREB REB AST STL BLK TO  PF   PTS

Brandon Triche, G 16 3-10 0-3 3-4 5 7 3 0 0 4 1 9

Dion Waiters, G 22 6-9 2-4 0-0 0 0 2 1 0 0 1

14

Statistically, this one is a no-brainer.  More points on a much better shooting % and no TO is more than enough to account for Waiters getting more minutes.  Of coruse, in a game like this, minutes are going to be pretty evenly distributed anyway, but I'll be intersting to see who gets the bulk as the season goes on.  I'll give Triche credit, though, for his rebounding and FT shooting.  Again, it was a fairly weak opponent, but if Triche can rebound like this (especially on the offensive glass) on a regular basis it might be enough to keep my starting vote.  And I find the fact that Waiters didn't even attempt a FT to be unacceptable.  He should have abused whoever was guarding him and tried to get to the rim, especially in the second half when Fordham played man.  He shot the ball well, but that doesn't mean he should settle for jumpers either.

As far as intangibles go, both Triche and Waiters showed improvement on the key complaints against them.  Triche didn't shoot well, but he was assertive.  As long as he can maintain that mindset, the shots will begin to fall.  He just needs to make sure they're good ones.  And Waiters played much more within the flow of the game.  At this time last season I remember seeing him dribble around for half the shot clock looking only to get a shot for himself.  There were a couple of instances where he used his driving ability to create chances for others (a drive and kick for a 3pt and the pass to MCW who then paid it off to Rak come to mind).  Much like with Triche, is a matter of Waiters keeping that team-oriented mind set and making sure that the shots he does take are good ones.

As of right now, Triche is keeping my vote as the starter.  It's only one game and even though Waiters played head and shoulders better, I'm not going to discount Triche's experience enough to relegate him to the bench.  Cast your vote who who you think is best suited to start...so far.

Poll
Based on their performance so far, who do you think should start?
Brandon Triche
47 votes
Dion Waiters
21 votes

68 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 25 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I like Waiters coming off the bench

He’s the top scoring option off the bench – even more than Fair. Fair is probably more valuable, considering all he does, but he’s not going to generate instant offense like Waiters.

I think Waiters is better than Triche, and may warrant the start if Triche struggles, but for now, I like the current system.

http://cusepulp.blogspot.com/

by Lots of Pulp on Nov 14, 2011 11:29 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah

CJ is likely to be the first off the bench most of the time, if only because Rak is more likely to struggle than Triche, but Waiter’s will definitely be the leading bench scorer. Hell, we might even have a Morris Peterson situation and have him lead the team in scoring from the bench.

"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes

by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 14, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Gotta agree

Triche has the experience and Id rather have Triche take the big shot if it ever came down to that. Let Waiters be the spark when this team needs a run. Hes really talented but I just like Triche’s maturity better.

May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.

by ryanwk628 on Nov 14, 2011 11:58 AM EST reply actions  

Triche has started every game in his career here

Don’t expect JB to change that unless he gets hurt.

by MarshallSt on Nov 14, 2011 12:15 PM EST reply actions  

I agree

Also remember that starting does not always mean more playing time.

by Piety Hill on Nov 14, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Just

ask Craig Forth

Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won 10 f-- games, not 10

by PoetryInMoten on Nov 14, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

MCNEAL!!!!

I remember the sarcastic cheers at the dome when he would finally check in a the scorers table. Sorry Craig lol

Karl Mallone says we should calls it live-betes, cuz he get sad er'ry time someone say they gon' diabetes

by OD31521 on Nov 14, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Forth,

exactly who I was thinking of.

by Piety Hill on Nov 14, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't expect Jim B to change either

But that doesn’t mean we can’t discuss it

"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes

by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 14, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the better discussion is who plays the final 4 minutes in a tight game when it matters

I don’t give a crap who is on the floor for opening tip. I want to see who is out there in a 3 point game with 4 min on the clock

by MarshallSt on Nov 14, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

The Hot Hand

If Waiters is hot, he’ll play. Boeheim is loyal to starter status, but rides the hot shooter (see Scoop in ’09 playing more crunch-time minutes than Triche).

http://twitter.com/#!/TeabagDunk

by I miss DIAP! on Nov 14, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

“starting” is the most ridiculous concern any player should have. “Finishing” is what tells you what the coach thinks of you.

Dictated, but not read.

http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/

by ezcuse on Nov 14, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Triche is an anomaly to me

If he had half of the self assurance that Waiters has, I think he would blow Waiters out of the water both intangibly and statistically. As it is, I still like Triche to start. I don’t entirely trust Waiters, but if he keeps up his play within the game, that might change. Also, we haven’t had a dominant rebounding effort so far, which I find somewhat troubling in the toughness category. If we need our 2 guard to pick up the slack for us there, so be it.

Other people look, Andy Rautins can SEE.

by FatK44 on Nov 14, 2011 12:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

7 boards by Triche

Is about as good as you can expect from a 2-guard. But you have to wonder, how many of those should the bigs have gotten instead.

"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes

by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 14, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I read nothing into it

With all the threes a lot of boards shot out to the perimeter players.

by Nick Petrilli on Nov 14, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Waiters is stronger with the ball

And looks like he’s a better shooter now, too.

I keep waiting and waiting for Triche to just have a big game or finally put it all together, but time and time again he looks the same out there. Below average jump shooter, weakish handle and struggles to finish in traffic. He always looks like he’s capable of being “the guy”, but it just hasn’t happened and I don’t know if it ever will. I don’t fully trust Waiters, but I have more faith in him to make plays and help this team out.

I expect Triche to start for the next two years, but I also expect Waiters to play more. At least he probably should play more…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Nov 14, 2011 1:01 PM EST reply actions  

I Agree

An aspect of his game that really bothers me is his horrible body language after making a bad play. He drops his head and looks like he is mentally checked out of the game for a few seconds.

by pbny on Nov 14, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

It seems mental

Triche clearly has the ability to be a dominant player – he showed flashes of being the best player on the court last year – but generally, he looks like he’s thinking too much when he plays. Sometimes it’s worrying about taking a bad shot, sometimes it’s forcing one because the coaches have told him to be more aggressive. If he had Scoop or Waiters’ self-confidence, I think he might be one of the best guards in the country, but when he starts to overthink everything, he might not eve be one of the best 3 guards on our team. I keep hoping he’ll have an awesome game and a light switch will go off for him, thought that was going to happen last year, but it never did. I guess choosing between him and Waiters is what you might call a high-class problem.

http://twitter.com/#!/TeabagDunk

by I miss DIAP! on Nov 14, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

i think triche...

…is just playing the role he needs to play on this team. the guy obviously has the talent to go out there and dominate the king of kings but on this team his role is that of a distributor and facilitator similar to a. autry and l. sims, two other extremely talented players who played on great teams and knew their roles. boeheim alluded to this when he talked up triche when j flynn was leaving. i always thought that boeheim saw triche as a true pg and even a throwback type player, even if he is playing the two with scoop there.

by or44nge on Nov 14, 2011 1:38 PM EST reply actions  

Agree

I think Triche’s natural game is as a PG. He has the skill to play both, IMO, but I don’t think he has a scorer’s mentality. I’d like to see some more of a Triche/Waiters combo. It would solve both or their key problems: Triche wouldn’t be counted on to score and Waiters could concentrate on getting buckets.

"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes

by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 14, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Start them both!

Bench Scoop!

Just kidding….but really, maybe we can see how that would work out against a weak opponent…..It’d be interesting to see.

Born in '87, Orange fan since '86

by StealthTurkey on Nov 14, 2011 3:15 PM EST reply actions  

Were Triche/Waiters on the floor together at all against Fordham? I remember a good dose of Scoop/Waiters and MCW/Waiters.

"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes

by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 14, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I was at work for half of it and didn't get to watch all of it.

So I don’t know.

Also, MCW could always try out for QB after that pass into the 5th row :D

Born in '87, Orange fan since '86

by StealthTurkey on Nov 14, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, for a few minutes, but I don’t think they did any half court sets during that time.

by Gregory Tuers on Nov 14, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

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