South Florida 37 - Syracuse 17: Perhaps We Are Who We Thought We Were
by Sean Keeley on Nov 13, 2011 11:00 AM EST
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PrintBefore the season started, almost everyone predicted the Syracuse Orange would finish somewhere between 5-7 and 7-5. If you were an optimist, you went the 7-5 route. If you were a pessimist, you went 5-7. If you were non-committal, you split the difference at 6-6.
As the season wore on, we saw the signs that this might have been a 5-7 team about to put together a 7-5 season. It might have even been a 4-8 team about to put together an 8-4 season. Regardless of how they were getting it done, we all recalibrated our expectations. Even the pessimists...most of them at least. At the very least, our floor and ceiling were both raised.
And then the last three weeks happened. With the 37-17 loss to USF, the Orange will spend another week in bowl eligibility purgatory. With a home game against the best team in the conference and road game against a school we haven't beaten since 2004 left, 5-7 is looking a whole lot more likely than 7-5, even if this topsy-turvy Big East.
All of it begs the question...is this a good team whose wheels have fallen off the bus or is this team who we thought they were (even if we didn't want to admit it) when the season started? I'm afraid to admit we can't deny the latter anymore.
I'm starting to wonder if the 2010 season and the 2011 season should have been flipped. As in, this was the year-before-the-year that we expected 2010 to be and last year was the breakout year that would have made sense in 2011. Doug Marrone flipped the script and in doing so caused us to expect more from a Syracuse team for the first time in years.
There's a lot of folks complaining about Ryan Nassib but, I mean, what do you want him to do? Yeah he's had his own issues with overthrows and decision-making. But with the lack of pass protection and dropped passes he'd had to deal with, is there another quarterback on the roster that could possibly do better? Or even half as well as he has. Even in the loss, after going 23 of 46 passes for 297 yards and two TDs, Nassib isn't the problem.
Sir Alec Lemon had a nice day for the mot part, grabbing a career-high 10 catches for 179 yards and 2 TDs, but he also dropped a third score. And he wasn't the only one. TE David Stevens dropped a TD in the end zone as well. Both drops occurred in the fourth quarter when execution needs to be 100%. And those were just the TD drops, they don't include the Dorian Graham TD drop and many others. It's an old problem for the Orange and one we had thought was over. Instead it remains as an example of what's going on with the team right now.
We will not speak of the kicking game, except to say that there's a reason we've recently brought a soccer player in to compete.
There was a lot of folks blaming themselves after the game. The offensive linemen blamed themselves for the lack of protection. The receivers blamed themselves for the drops. Other players blamed themselves for the penalties. Marrone blamed himself for everything.
Marrone said the Orange got beat in all three phases. I'd throw in that they got beat in that crucial fourth phase as well. The phase where they go head-to-head with themselves. It's a phase they've lost three weeks in a row. It's a phase that, when you lose it, it rarely matters how you do in the other three phases.
It's going to be a very long bye week break for the orange and the fans. True, the last time we came out of a bye week, we dominated the best team in the conference at the time. We'll have a chanc to do it again but it just doesn't feel the same. Hope and excitement has been replaced by desperation and fear. Fear of what it means if we lose. And then lose again.
Hopefully the players don't give in. Expect to see a lot of motivational quotes on Twitter over the next two weeks coming from the players. I doubt you'll see too many from the fanbase.
- Brent Axe's Syracuse-South Florida football recap: The good, the bad and the rest...Brent Axe
- Syracuse pass protection breaks down, offense unable to gain rhythm...Daily Orange
- DROPPING OUT: Woeful miscues prove costly as SU routed by South Florida in 3rd straight loss...Daily Orange
- South Florida's B.J. Daniels redeems himself with solid performance against Syracuse...Dave Rahme
- Marrone prepares Syracuse for final portion of season as it chases bowl bid...Syracuse.com
- USF Defeats Syracuse 37-17...SUAthletics.com
- Lemon has another career day as Syracuse loses...The Juice
- Syracuse Football Vs. USF: Marrone Falls On Orange Sword After Loss To USF, 37-17...SB Nation NY
- Every Day Should Be Friday: USF 37, Syracuse 17...Voodoo Five
Syracuse vs. South Florida Football: Coach Marrone Post-Game (Posted by Steven J. Pallone / The Post-Standard)
Syracuse vs. South Florida Football: SU Players Post-Game (Posted by Steven J. Pallone / The Post-Standard)
Skip Holtz after his team's 37-17 win.
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Nice summary
To paragraph 5, I would just note that in 1985 we went to the Cherry Bowl. Our 7 wins were over teams with a combined record of 24-52.
Nevertheless, big things were expected the following season. Instead, we went 5-6, with wins over teams with a combined record of 21-31. Major disappointment. Our offense regressed. Our defense regressed. The Sack Mac Club started. Etc.
In 1987, we had a pretty good season with a senior quarterback. Granted, even 1987 was a pretty weak schedule compared to what we would play in the 1990s and 2000s. But 11-0-1 is 11-0-1.
My bigger point is that anyone who thinks that the line to the top is a straight line… like the Yodeler guy in the Price is Right… may be off. It can work that way, but our own school has shown that you can take a step backward before taking two steps forward.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
Good historical comparison
I agree with Sean, I think coming into the year we all agreed 5-7 wins was the expectation. We’re right there, and hopefully these guys can pull out a win somewhere.
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
RESTORE 44!
by kotite4ever on Nov 13, 2011 3:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Could not agree more.
And right before we beat #1 Nebraska in ’84, we lost to Rutgers. So, like you said, it is not a straight line. As frustrating as the losses and even some of the wins have been, I still think the program is on schedule… heck it might still even be a bit ahead of schedule. Remember, too, the state of the program after Maloney left was nothing compared to the cataclysm left behind by GRob.
Spot on
The GRob mess is a big part of the reason I dont think you can judge HCDMs recruiting until the 2012 class is on campus. Those are the only kids who ever saw SU have a winning season while they were playing football at any level. For his first classes, he was an unknown commodity at a school that has consistently been in the bottom of the worst conference in the country with the worst facilities in the conference (maybe USF is worse but girls walk around in bikini tops there so I exclude it). I think thats why we have been competing with MAC schools for recruits at the tail end of the recruiting period. Its not Doug’s fault, its just an honest reflection of where we stood as a program. The 2012 recruiting class is the post pinstripe bowl class. Its our first pick of guys, most of whom committed as soon as they got an offer from us. I believe its win first, then get good recruits, not the other way around. So we are ahead of schedule.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
Also
http://www.downthedrive.com/2011/11/13/2558392/west-virginia-24-cinccinnati-21-sunday-links
Cinccinnati?
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
defense will not win the next two games...
…offense will. As I said in ezcuse’s fan post following the USF game, the offense has to score at least 3-4 touchdowns to have a chance at winning. The defense has proved inconsistent at best (I’m not even going to mention special teams). They can’t tackle, they don’t put much pressure on the QB and (as far as I’m concerned) the secondary might as well not even be out there for the most part.
Can we please get rid of the ******* zone already? It doesn’t work. Period. All it’s done is give the opposition very easy 1st downs. At this point, if we get beat man-to-man, so be it. I’m just sick of watching them stop an offense on 1st and 2nd and then give up a 1st down on a 3rd and 6, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 10, 3rd and forever (seriously, how many times have you’ve seen that this season?).
I’m not sure what’s going on with the offense, but this is definitely not the same one I saw in the early part of the year. They need to pick it up a notch.
"Over?! Did you say over?! Nothing is over until we decide it is!" John Blutarsky (John Belushi) in the movie 'Animal House'
by orangebookworm on Nov 13, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
in defense of the transitive property
The bye week has me hopeful that Marrone can work his magic again and come out with a game plan to smoke Cincinnati in the Dome like we did WVU. If WVU just (barely) beat Cincinnati, and we know that WVU isn’t as good as they looked going into that epic game a few weeks ago, then maybe, just maybe, Cincinnati isn’t as good as their record makes them look either. I think Syracuse can beat them, just like the teams they faced in the last three games. It’s just a matter of whether they get their heads right over the bye week and come in with a plan for Cinci.
Our offense seems to make a jump
When they have extra time to prepare (see WVU and K State). I don’t know if it has to do with being rested or having practiced a more thorough string of play calling, or simply that both of those teams have had poor defenses, but I’m hopeful that we will do good things against Cincinnati.
Other people look, Andy Rautins can SEE.
Agreed the lack of pass protection was extra troubling
Even from Bailey, who is normally an excellent blocking back.
It was also another game in which the team was out-coached. USF play-calling had the defense on their heels most of the game. While the the 7 or 8 runs to start the game were pretty indicative of the one-dimensionality of recent weeks. Granted all the dropped passes didn’t help.
guys, I’m sorry, but at some point we have to realize that the route of all these losses is the lack of player leadership on the team, which starts with nassib. We have been in every one of these past three games, with many opportunities to win. However, each time we make a stop, or have a chance to go ahead, we do not. A leader is someone who doesn’t let there team lose or not take advantage of opportunities and that should be nassib. Nassib is a panicky player. he’s not a leader.
really?
his (senior) receivers dropped multiple touchdown passes in the endzone in the 4th quarter while the team still had a chance to stay in the game. nassib had driven the offense down into the redzone on both of these occasions.
My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable.
I cant put it on him
I believe they are running they system because the HAVE to. Its a lot like what GB and NO run. Its a shot gun pass first attack with very little down the field throws. It forces Ryan to have to put every single ball in a tight window. No jump balls to WRs who can win the one on one match ups because we dont have those guys. Last year we were a run first team with Ryan getting the snap under center from Bart and giving it to DC3. This year he is in the gun because Mackey cant run block and AB is no DC3. Every game we take multiple deep shots against man coverage and none of our WRs ever make a play. After the USC game I wrote about how Ryan plays a much more difficult game than Barkley who was just lofting passes up and essentially saying “go get it.”
People say the mark of a good coach is they will adjust the system to get the most out of their players…. well I believe thats exactly what they are doing. I dont think this is they system they will run down the road, the QBs (dual threat), backs (big) and WRs (fast) dont fit that scheme. I believe we are going to be a run first team that will keep teams from stacking the box via deep threats where only the TE will go across the middle as opposed to now where every route is across the middle.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
I agree to most of ur points, but...
where do you see the bigger, faster WRs that will fight for the ball and transform our offense into a deep-threat style? I don’t see anyone who’s on the team now filling that role, and, as I’ve looked at the incoming class, I don’t see anyone tearing up the HS scene. Sure, we may have the QB’s to fit this “new” scheme, but I just don;t see the support players to make it happen. Hopefully, in the next 3-4 yrs, this kind of talent will show up!!
Maybe we will get one
but I dont think thats what we are looking to do. I think we are going to have a big back and a QB who is a threat to run. Then, to keep the D honest we will have a couple burners lined up out wide to safeties out of the box. I was more saying that Ryan does not have a Mike Williams to loft it up to when he gets in trouble. GP2 would lob it up into tipple coverage and Mike would come down with it. It makes a QBs life so much easier than when he has to thread the needle to get it to his small and slow WRs, then they drop it anyways.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
could not disagree more
You could tell me that Nassib needs to learn to take some heat off his throws and I wouldn’t disagree with you. But I also come from the school of thought where if you’re a WR or TE and are lucky enough to have the QB put the ball in your hands, you make the catch. Some of his throws may have been hot, but they were on the money.
Good leaders take responsibility for the teams shortcomings, and give credit to others for the successes. Nassib does that.
Good leaders make good decisions. Nassib has 20 TDs and only 6 INTs on the season. Nassib also made the right call to tuck it and run a few times vs. USF, versus forcing a throw to a receiver that was covered.
Good leaders find ways to improve. Nassib already has better numbers than he did through all of last season, including the pinstripe bowl.
Good leaders make everyone around them better. Lemon is having his best season of his college career. Provo is breaking records. Bailey is on pace for a 1000 yard season. Graham, West and Stevens have emerged as viable receiving targets.
Good leaders take one for the team. Nassib has been sacked 22 times already. What you may call being “panicky” is a byproduct of having an O-line that doesn’t block well. Even still, Nassib has delivered the ball and taken a massive hit multiple times this season.
Good leaders maintain composure under pressure. Nassib has devliered two OT wins, both after trailing in the 4th Q. Nassib led GW drives vs Tulane and Rhode Island.
So yeah, I kinda sorta think you’re wrong.
BEAT CINCY
by bloodyyank44 on Nov 14, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
Ryan Nassib is not the reason we have lost so many games.
That is just a silly assertion. If his receivers can’t catch TD passes, what is he supposed to do, catch his own passes? He’s not perfect, but Nassib is a good deal more positive than he is negative. And he seems much more a leader than many (maybe all) of the QBs since McNabb. Nassib isn’t turning the ball over at an enormous rate or making horrible decisions. And he is very vocal. But if his receivers and RBs don’t help him out, he can only do so much to secure wins.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
+1
I’ve been saying it for awhile. The receiving corps as a whole is average at best. Provo has had a nice season and Lemon, Graham and Chew have had flashes, but they’re all guilty of dropping far more balls than they should. Nassib hasn’t been perfect by any stretch, but when he lays it on a receiver’s hands, it had to be caught.
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 14, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
No Collaros should help
right? Cincy not having their leader on the field should give Syracuse an advantage in 2 weeks, but after watching the way they played against dual threat QBs lately I am not sure what Munchie will do in the Dome
Our poor timing continues
He gets a whole game and two weeks of practice to get comfortable. He can work out the kinks this week and then be ready to go when he plays us.
Dictated, but not read.
http://atlanticcoastconfidential.wordpress.com/
I think this could bode well for us
We get a week off to study how Cincy responds without Collaros, and learn what Legaux’s strengths and weaknesses are. Could go either way – Cincy may not miss a beat, or they could cave in like they did last season.
In any case I do not see Cincy being a better team with their backup QB in there when they come to town in two weeks. I think Collaros would’ve been the most dangerous QB we’d face all season, not to mention he’s the heart of that team.
What we do know right now is we lit up WVU’s defense for 42 pts at home with our mediocre offense, while Cincy only managed half that with Collaros/Legaux.
Not to mention our offense will get two weeks to learn how to attack Cincy’s D. Like you said, we need to score 30+ to win, which is what I think this game will come down to.
BEAT CINCY
by bloodyyank44 on Nov 14, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Keys to victory
Not trying to be controversial or pick a fight, but I bet if our offense was better and our defense was better and our special teams was better and we scored more points than whomever we’re playing, we’d win more games. Or not. I don’t know.
http://twitter.com/#!/TeabagDunk
Take that back!
Victor Cruz is the 2011 Ahmad Bradshaw. He giveth, and he taketh away.
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 14, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
We need this bye
It always helps. Get healthy and have extra time to prep. Its the best thing for us and we have done well out of our last two long breaks.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
Bow Game Bowl Game Bowl Game
Please gents.
We noticed this fade down the stretch last year too. It was tough to watch, and I think it got swept away a little bit with the Pinstripe bowl win, where all of a sudden we were in top form again.
Since we returned almost the exact same offense minus Delone Carter, I will be curious to see if there was actually regression in the offensive numbers from last year, or if did make improvement but till couldn’t get the wins.
Minus DC3 and Bart
which is just as big a loss. Last year, with the same players, we were a run first team with the #4 center prospect, a power back and Ryan playing under center (which gives the RB two steps to get up to speed). This year we are in the gun with a tiny center who cant get any push and a 3rd down back playing all three. Its a totally different philosophy, but I feel its the scheme that best fits the players we have. I doubt it is the scheme we are going to run in the future though if you look at the players HCDM is recruiting.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
There are lots of variables
that contributed to our loss. Last week it was our complete and utter lack of tackling that I felt was the number 1 variable. Friday night, to me, it was our multiple dropped passed. I know there are other things that contributed, but those dropped passes were killer. Two touchdown drops in the fourth quarter. As I said, special teams, D-line play, lack of tackling were also contributors. But dropped passes is the #1 contribution to our loss Friday night in my mind. Just catch the damn ball and this game would of been compeltely different!!!!
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on Nov 14, 2011 9:41 AM EST reply actions
"With a home game against the best team in the conference"
Cincy might have the best record, but I don’t think that makes them the best team. I’d still say that WVU is the best team, all things considered. Cincy might be one up in the L column, but they haven’t played anybody. If not for the LSU game, WVU would likely have an equal record. Not to mention that the Mountaineers just beat the Bearcats in Cincy.
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 14, 2011 10:48 AM EST reply actions
Wow.
I just watched Doug’s press conference. I honestly believe the guy is speaking from the heart when he shoulders all the load and takes personal responsibility for every loss. Like, this guy isnt sleeping all week because he feels HE lost the game. Thats gotta wear on you.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
That second pic isnt even the worst Ive seen
2008
2011
2015
go easy on the guy
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
Lol
I put it up there bc it’s at the same location. I found some other ones that makes me think he sleeps 30 mins a night too:
www.CuseRugby.com
www.SyracuseRugby.com
#InMarroneIBelieve
I know this is not the “we will contend for the Big East title” team many hoped for and even Coach Marrone hoped to have but it’s still better than GROB was. And let’s be clear, not all of this rides on Coach Marrone’s shoulders either. He did not drop a TD pass that hit his hands nor did he make bad passes. He did not give up a TD or get called for a penalty. I know some of this is practice habits but reality is, game day things happen. In fact, one TD drop came from the most consistant receiver we had that day who it hit right in the hands and he dropped it.
I believe in Coach Marrone and his staff and stand behind them. Not every call is perfect but it’s easier to judge that from a couch than the field in the moment. I honestly believe that with even the most passionate amongst us (and Syracuse football is my first love in sports), Doug Marrone, his staff and the players are still taking it harder than we are after a loss like that.
Go Orange!
"I'm in a Syracuse State Of Mind"
http://www.syracusestateofmind.wordpress.com/
by Orange Chuck on Nov 14, 2011 12:54 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Why is there very little discussion about Marrone?
He’s the biggest reason this team is in shambles, right now, IMO.
He’s been outcoached routinely this year, including by guys like Schiano (!), Coach P and Skip Holtz. His offensive gameplans are just atrocious to say the least, and about as predictable as they come. You can only dink and dunk an opponent so many times before they completely shut you down. All the short pass calls that end up well short of the first down marker are just conservative and almost useless calls. In this day and age, offense is the name of the game. Running a pro style, short passing game just doesn’t work at this level without a talent advantage. You need a more explosive offense with the ability to put points on the board on a consistent basis. Obviously, Marrone’s offenses haven’t done that, especially as seasons have progressed.
For the third year in a row, the team has hit a major snag in the middle of the season and gone on a very bad stretch of losses. His teams are currently 6-13 in the freakin’ Big East, including 2-8 in the Dome!!! What is going to happen when we start playing much better programs in the ACC? Talent is certainly an issue, but what is Marrone doing to get the most out of his players? I’d argue that without Scott Shafer’s defense last year, those wins would be even fewer and further between. The team plays undisciplined football and continues to rack up the mistakes and penalties. For a guy seen as such a disciplinarian, that’s alarming.
Recruiting has been weak. I agree that it was going to take some time after GROB, but we’re still struggling to pull in impact players. For a guy who wants to run the ball, where are the RB recruits? Where are the playmakers in the backfield? We have yet to add that player. Ameen-Moore is a big guy that seems better suited to grind down defenses behind a good OL, and sure doesn’t look like a big play type runner. The rest of the RB’s Marrone has added to the program are basically undersized scat backs with a touch of speed. For a program with such rich RB tradition, being unable to add quality runners at this point is difficult to understand.
What about QB? He’s recruited a number of raw athletes that seem like spread options, yet there’s no indication that he’d ever run that type of offense. So what’s it going to be?
After a nice second season that surprised many and culminated with a nice bowl victory, recruiting hasn’t seemed to pickup at all. In fact, the program overall seems to be regressing.
I think Marrone is a good man, a solid coordinator type and a questionable head coach at this level. I’ve never been impressed with his game day coaching, but he seems to be struggling in other areas now (on field discipline, recruiting, scheming). I’m really beginning to believe he isn’t the decade or more guy we had all hoped he would be, and instead is just another guy in over his head. Moving to the ACC doesn’t look like it’s going to be a smooth move for him and his coaching/recruiting. We’ll see, but my outlook on him has grown dimmer and dimmer. I think next year is going to be an even tougher year with fewer weapons on O and very little coming into the program. Some of the young defenders are promising, but an offensive minded head coach needs to do a better job than Marrone has done, IMO.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yes, because 2 2/3 years of rebuilding is more than enough time.
All due respect, this is the type of fan mentality that seems to thrive on negativity.
HCDM didn’t inherit the LSU Tigers when he became HC. SU was in the worst funk of the program’s history……I’ll repeat that- THE WORST FUNK IN THE PROGRAM’S HISTORY!!!
Yet, some delusional fans expect, even after a surprise Bowl win in year 2, that we’d be all the way back, lickety-split, in-a-jiffy, like….yesterday!
Can we please grow up a little? Consistent inconsistency is a trademark of rebuilding, just ask Notre Dame. The last thing we need is to pull the trigger & start fresh…..after just 3 years.
Not only would that be short-sighted, it’d be downright STUPID! Patience is a dirty word in our instant gratification culture, but that’s what needs to happen here.
I believe HCDM is the right man for the long-haul, & I certainly ain’t changing my opinion because of a few bad losses in year 3.
by VerbalKint on Nov 14, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
+1
I think most would agree that Marrone is ahead of schedule in terms of rebuilding the mess that G-Rob left behind. I think it’s part of the reason we get so disappointed when things unravel. We’re constantly waiting to get over the hump.
"If I ain't gonna be part of the greatest, I gotta be the greatest myself." Busta Rhymes
by FeloniousPhunk on Nov 14, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
+2
Especially when you consider that we have been the worst team in the worst conference for the last 10 years. No one on the current roster thought of SU as a good program when they committed. We have some of the worst facilities in the league. Right now the seniors are the guys who committed when GRob was a lame duck. We have no recent tradition of winning save for last year, the fruits of which we wont see until the 2012 class gets here in aug. And look at the guys hes bringing in, they are not shot gun dink and dunk guys. But he is running that scheme because it gives us the best chance to win with the guys weve got. There is no secret offense that would suddenly make us a BCS team.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
Grow up a little? What?
I’m talking about what I’ve seen out of Marrone and his program and the direction it may be headed in. If somebody thought this team should be fighting for BCS bids or whatever any time soon, they’re delusional.
I didn’t realize I said SU should pull the trigger and fire him. That’s nutty. But can’t I take what I’ve SEEN and OPINE my thoughts about him without people like you telling others to grow up, talk about shortsightedness and say they’re delusional.
How long should people remain patient? After this long, I hardly find instant gratification a term that can be used to describe expectations or reactions to the program. We’re three years into his regime and I don’t think it’s too early to question him or where the program may be headed. I don’t like his offensive schemes or playcalling (that he allows Hackett to make), I think he gets outcoached rather often, makes poor gameday decisions (clock management, adjustments) and hasn’t yet brought in many impact recruits. None of that has to do with GRob and has everything to do with what Marrone has done in his three years. Do I think he can get better? Yes of course I do, but right now I haven’t liked his decision making nor feel comfortable with his building of the team right now. He was in a real tough position coming in, and it wasn’t going to be easy. Three years in, we can begin to at least see tendencies and what Marrone plans to do with the program.
I’ve used three years of what I’ve seen on the field to make an opinion. I’m not basing this on a few losses the past couple of weeks, so at least consider that before you go out and criticize some more opinions.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Well, there are times I've questioned Marrone too
But what head coach in America has not been questioned about things they have done? I get that you dont want to label Marrone as a savior like so many other fans have done. I get that there are things he does that make you want to question the thought process and whether or not he is “in over his head”. However, there are PLENTY of things he has done that should make you think there is hope. That makes you think that we can turn the corner. There are DEFINITELY positive signs and I feel we are headed in the right direction. Whats your favorite NFL team? Whoever it is, has a head coach. I guarantee whoever that head coach has made wrong decisions in the past. Has made you question whether or not he knows what is going on. Coach’s are not mistake free.
One more thing I have to completely disagree with you on is…that we are 3 years into his regime and I dont think its too early to question him or where the program may be headed. I COMPLETELY disagree with you on that. 2 and a half years after inheriting the WORST BCS team in the Nation and you feel you know where the program is headed? Please let me know where you think we are headed. I think that is SOOOO unfair. Not one of his recruits are even done with their Junior year yet and you know where this program is head. Wow…completely disagree
Also, you mentioned a list of things you can question with Marrone and at the end said “hasnt yet brought in many impact recruits”. None of that has to do with Grob…Completely disagree with that as well. Yeah, the game day problems you listed has nothing to do with Grob. BUT the lack of recruiting can CERTAINLY be blamed on Grob. Grob RUINED any connections we had on the east coast. Marrone has to single handidly drive to all the NY recruiting hotbeds and re-establish the relationship with those coaches. Marrone inherited a pile of shit and you want him to just say “Abacadaba” and change the opinions so many recruits have of Syracuse after what they saw under Grob? Thats just a total lack of patience.
I will say, your more then welcome to criticize Marrone. I think people on this board and other SU fans get a little to sensitive when criticizing Marrone. I do. But, I also feel that we MUST have patience. What if I told you that we will be in a BCS game in the next 3 years? Is that too long to wait? If so, then your in for a rude awakening being a Syracuse football fan.
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on Nov 14, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Honestly
youre being really naive as to the state of our program when Doug took over. It has taken 3 years just to get the recruiting up and running where we are actually getting the guys we want. When Doug was hired there was no better HC that wanted the job. We are Syracuse and until we get a massive donor, we will be a school that deals with either re-treads (Spence) or young up and comers (Hackett). Some times it works out (Schaefer) and sometimes not (GRob). We are not getting Les Miles or Nick Seban. Remember the Sexy-O-Meter? That was not an A list and there a lot of those guys turned us down (Gill, Holtz, Edsall, Tuberville) and the only realistic alternatives were Mike Locksley and some other NFL coordinators, and a lot of them were not really interested. This is a job NO ONE wanted…. save for Doug. Awful facilities, burned recruiting connections, culture of losing, no national presence etc. Anyone else who would have taken this team would have used it as a stepping stone. Doug was the right guy for the job. There is no doubting that.
And he didnt take over an SEC team with top 10 talent. He took over a team that was losing recruits to MAC schools. For his first two years they still were because it takes a lot longer to turn around a program with no talent. Honestly Im amazed at what he has done so far. Most of us dont have a lot of perspective because we are too close to it, but football people recognize the job he has done considering the circumstances. Yes we lost some close games, but they were close games that could have gone either way. I think our record right now is about right given out talent level. Trade WVU for UConn and no one is shocked our outraged. But as Sean said at the start of the season, this team will blow out a good team and get blown out by a bad team. They are young, they are handcuffed into schemes based on available talent and they are getting hurt for lack of depth.
We had almost 10 bad years. One Pinstripe Bowl win is not going to make us a league power.
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
by ryanwk628 on Nov 14, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, all that is and was obvious
Facilities, state of the program 3 years ago, interest in the job, all that. I’m not arguing that, forgetting that or debating how difficult of a position Marrone was/is in. I said that before already and I don’t know why that’s the focus. Maybe I was ahead of myself on the recruiting and expectations at this point. I’m not expecting 4 and 5 star recruits (and hope nobody else is either) and know that getting those kids doesn’t mean a whole lot until they get into a program and start playing (see Rutgers). I think I’m more interested in seeing if Marrone can bring in playmakers at impact positions (QB?, RB, WR, DE). I don’t think he has to this point, but we’ll see. He was in an extremely tough position coming in and quickly stopped some of the bleeding. That’s admirable, but he has to take the next step with this program. Right now, I just feel like the program hasn’t improved over the last year like it did over the first two. That’s where some of my worries lie, in his ability to take those next steps.
I’m much less worried about the recruiting to this point than I am about his gameday coaching and preparation. On-field discipline continues to be a problem as penalties have become more problematic after year one. His schemes and playcalling just seem stubborn to me (trying to establish a power run game without any of the pieces each week, for example). I don’t know if he doesn’t trust his kids in other schemes, but running this same predictable offense is tough get behind. For an offensive minded coach, is he getting the most out of this group? Each year, the team has tailed off down the stretch and that indicates to me something is up with the team’s ability to adapt and change. Is it really so wrong to question Marrone on game days?
Luckily the landscape is changing for SU and Marrone. There will be opportunities to take a major step forward with this program in the next few years. With SU moving to the ACC and hopefully getting the chance to improve facilities with the added revenue, those should become a better recruiting tool. I’m sure it will take a number of years due to the timing of the move and how long it will take to implement any additions, but the move is a start. It also doesn’t hurt that issues at the other northeastern programs gives SU a bit of edge in terms of stability and potential. The Penn State awfulness, BC falling apart and Rutgers/UConn in purgatory leaves the door wide open for SU (and Pitt) to capitalize on recruiting and building interest in the program. Now is the time to really build the momentum on that and on the pending ACC move. This is where Coach Marrone needs to prove he’s the guy for the long haul and can truly build this program back up.
Some of these responses act as if I want Marrone fired and have absolutely no hope in him whatsoever. Jeez. He’s done a number of good things for this program and I’m really happy with that. Just because I question where I believe he has the program at currently, where it might be headed and his coaching during games doesn’t mean I don’t understand how difficult his job has been, how far in the crapper this program was and how this isn’t something that can be fixed overnight. I just believe that after 3 years we can see some of Marrone’s tendencies, how he handles games and make adjustments and where this program still needs major help. Since everybody seems to disagree with that, let me ask, what are your feelings about his coaching and ability to elevate this program to the next level and beyond? I’ve seen a lot of comments about how we should all be happy about a bowl game last year being well above anybody’s expectations and that it takes years to build this thing, but what about what you see on the field on a weekly basis?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Rec, rec,
… and rec.
I was thinking of creating another id so I could rec that again.
It took seven frustrating years for HALL OF FAME COACH Dick MacPherson to turn the Orange into a successful program… five years just to get to a bowl. And the mess he had to clean up was nothing compared to the GRob era. Granted, it IS easier to go to a bowl these days than back then, but still, a bowl (and a bowl WIN) in year two? If anyone had told me that in 2008 I’d have told them to stop drinking their breakfast. And now, the team is struggling a little, sure, but it’s not the end of the world. Frankly, it’s kind of amazing we’ve been playing as well as we have the past two seasons.
Another reason the offense is struggling is b/c Marrone moved most of the best players to defense – because that is the fastest way to build a winner. Sure he wants to score points, but bottom line, end of the day, he just wants to win.
All due respect to Kurupt, your entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. Not trying to jump on you, but trying to present a little different perspective.
Well I appreciate that
All due respect to Kurupt, your entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. Not trying to jump on you, but trying to present a little different perspective.
What I don’t like seeing is people telling others how to think or how wrong they are about something that involves straight opinions, whether intentional or not. Not a huge deal, though. We all want the same thing in the end.
I can’t think about who you are talking about, but who are the better offensive players that were switched to D? I think most of the switches were frosh that were recruited at a defensive position or on both sides of the ball, right? Or am I completely blanking?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
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