Retiring Syracuse Football Jerseys: Who Makes The Cut?
We know Carmelo is getting number retired...again...we think. And that raises all sorts of questions of course. Does he deserve it for one year of work and a very big donation? Brent Axe says its a no-brainer but only after the many great Orange who came before him get their nod. When I originally discussed the issue in 2007, I didn't think Carmelo's case warranted it but that was before The Melo Center. That donation made Anthony a bigger part of our community and qualified him (as outlined in How To Grow An Orange...but you already knew that).
In the middle of discussion, however, is a related-yet-unrelated topic that Syracuse fans never seem to discuss. What ever happened to retiring Syracuse football player jerseys? Brent Axe kills it in his article today, explaining how we honor the #44 Trio out the wazoo but don't really do much to honor the other great SU footballers...and there are many.
You know what...why DON'T we have a Ring of Honor? You'd think that would right up DOC Gross' alley. Hell, even a Room of Honor in the back of Dome would suffice.
All of that said, I think if we're talking about who deserves the nod and who doesn't, we have to draw the line and we have to draw line high. The great thing about starting a Ring of Honor now is that we can set our standards impossibly high and then worry about it later. Like I always say, it's called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Great (which is what the MLB and NFL Hall of Fames have become).
So let's pretend that we're starting a Ring of Honor for Syracuse football. Who's in? Who just misses the cut? Who's not even really up for discussion? Let's find out.
We'll start with the older generations and the "no duh" placements that are in. Anything pre-Syracuse Common Era (1985 - Present). Ben Schwartzwalder, Dick MacPherson, Vic Hansen, Wilmeth Sidat-Singh, Jim Brown, Ernie Davis, Larry Csonka, Joe Morris, Art Monk. Good? Good. (I'm sure I forgot a bunch of guys and I'm sure you'll remind me but the fact that didn't come right to my mind speaks volumes as to whether or not they should be involved). On to the rest.
Nominees
Paul Pasqualoni - Wow...what a toughie right off the bat. I mean, on paper it's not a toughie. He is by all statistical accounts the 2nd-best coach in Syracuse history, moreso than Coach Mac. But whereas Coach Mac is beloved, Coach P is...though less-of. He and the SU community didn't exactly see eye-to-eye most of the time and his departure still brings up a lot of animosity on both sides of the argument. I feel like we kinda have to let him in eventually...but I'd wait a few years, at least until SU is good again and we can all focus on that.
Don McPherson - The closest thing to a Syracuse Hesiman Trophy winner since Ernie Davis, he also won a ton of QB awards, led the unbeaten 1987 team and helped establish Syracuse as a home for good QBs in the years to come. He's been an unstanding citizen and friend to the community in years since. I think he's a no-brainer.
Dan Conley - I mean, he was beloved for SU and he's beloved now as a coach but is he Ring-worthy? My gut says no. For now. Hate me if you must.
Marvin Graves - I tell you what, my instinct was to say no to Graves. I just didn't feel like he stood out enough compared to his counterparts. Then I looked at his stats. Do you realize it's Marvin and not Donovan McNabb that holds the SU record for passing yards in a season? He's also the only QB of The Big Three (McP, Graves & McNabb) to be in the Top 4 in passing yards twice. He's still in the top ten of every notable SU QB statistic. Surprisingly, I say yes.
Donovan McNabb - This isn't even realy up for discussion, is it? He's in.
Marvin Harrison - Ohhhhh, that's a toughie, isn't it? I mean on paper, no question about it. But how much do you take into consideration the whole "he probably shot a guy who eventually died mysteriously" thing? Again, I think this is one you postpone for a few years. At least until we know what we're dealing with here.
Walter Reyes - Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh my God Yes.
Damien Rhodes - Just doesn't pass the sniff test. Great player, but not THAT great.
Troy Nunes - Obviously, yes*
Keith Bulluck - Here's a guy who was really, really good with SU but he didn't truly blossom until he became a pro (at least in my opinion). I feel like he's on the fence and for the moment I'm going to say no, though I think he's a good bet for the veterans' committee.
Dwight Freeney - SU doesn't have a lot of defensive players up there...Freeney's about as sure a thing as we've got. Especially in recent history. He's in.
*By which I mean "no."
Greg Paulus - If it were up to Doug Marrone, in a heartbeat. For the rest of us...uh, no.
Mike Williams - He should have been a yes but he's a resounding no.
Alright, who'd I forget?
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Just a couple
Larry Csonka
Art Monk
and I know he didn’t put up great numbers or do anything huge but, if you want another defensive player why not go with a home town kid and throw Will Allen up there…… Then again we’re not UConn and can’t look past the criminal records so his DUI this year prob puts a end to his chance.
One more year Wes!
A bunch of "modern era" guys to consider
Rob Moore, Quadry Ismail, Chris Gedney, Kevin Mitchell, Kevin Abrhams, Donovin Darius, Tim Green, Morlon Greenwood, Kevin Johnson.
I think you would have to make a criteria like Axe referenced with Florida. Obviously start off with the big guns, and add some more of the forgotten guys over the years.
Huge Old School Misses
Jim Ringo, John Mackey, Jim Nance. No idea how you could miss these guys. Shouldn’t be a discussion about any of them.
Also, for new school, you can’t forget Markus Paul. He was a legit All-American.
Yes on the oldies
I was rushing through it. For shame.
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
Buy my book "How To Grow An Orange"
Why is it
when SU football greats are mentioned Marvin Graves is among the ‘well…..i dunno’ crowd?
Sorry but thats bull shit.
Marvin Graves is the best SU QB to put on a pair of pads. Please dont’ mistake what I’m saying. I’m as big a McNabb fan as anyone. He’s always going to be my favorite.. period. But during their time at SU Graves was the best.
I watched him from the time he set foot on campus until that disaster that was ’93. He ran the offense better (sorry, but he did) and had a more accurate arm. McNabb doesnt have the marquee wins that Graves does; Florida, Ohio State, Colorado. Not impressed?How about back to back 10-2 seasons and a #6 ranking in the final polls of ’92. Now I hear you clearing your throat….. McNabb beat Miami. Yes, McNabb beat a sholarship limited/probabtion stricken Miami. Anyone who saw the 92 game knows that Graves came a few yeard away from beating Miami when they WERE Miami. Whos the best team Syracuse beat while McNabb was runnign the show? Wisconsin? VPI? the aforementioned Miami?
Now I’ll answer my own first question. The reason he’s not mentioned while McNabb is a shoe-in is because of what McNabbs accomplished since leaving SU – PERIOD.
Had Graves gone to the NFL/Pro Bowls/Super Bowl he’d damn sure be mentioned by more SU fans as the best to wear #5.
Please dont twist what I’m saying. I’m a huge McNabb fan. Always have been, always will be. But Marvin Graves was THE man
Agree
I love McNabb, but Marvin Graves was absolutely terrific. If he played today, he definitely would have played at the next level. The NFL just didn’t know what to do with guys with his skill set 20 years ago.
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
Graves did have a great career in Canada.
That and a loonie will get you a cup of coffee.
also agree, and...
Didn’t Marvelous win the MVP in something like 3 straight bowls?
by War4Cuse on Aug 28, 2010 9:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
TD-INT
McNabb #1 in TDs with 77 and #7 in INTs with 26.
Graves #2 in TDs with 48 and #1 in INTs with 45 (which is 13 more than Nunes at #2).
McNabb is about 3 to 1 while Graves is almost 1-1. McNabb also rushed for 1812 yards vs 448 for Graves.
Their passing yards, attempts, and records (McNabb 35-14 vs Graves 33-12-3) were almost identical.
I loved Graves but he was our 3rd best QB.
Two Deep
I made this two deep last year.
http://kingottosworld.blogspot.com/2009/06/all-time-su-fb-team.html
Tim Green
was the biggest omission I could think of, but I also came up with Tebucky Jones and Will Allen. Oh and do we want to include kickers in this ring? B/c we could definitely include Anderson and Mare
Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won 10 f-- games, not 10
Ted Gregory
I still hate Colgate for hurting his leg in 87. Any ring of honor would need to include Pat Woodcock and Al Wooten.
Graves
As important McPherson was and as good as he was graves is the best number five. I can still remember Gedney catching the ball and screaming. Mcnabb was never that accurate but could scramble and throw to open receivers who broke their routes. Graves was accurate, had a cannon, and could scramble. By the way he never got sick on the field going for a win. My question always has been why couldn’t coach p bring in the next 5. I know the Vick story but come on nobody in their right mind thought nunes was the answer Sorry Sean.
by Stateoforange on Aug 27, 2010 8:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
actually ....
he did get sick trying for a win. SI article entitled “Close Encounter” recapped how Graves was throwing up on the last drive but stayed in to save a TO. The Canes fans in the huddle, “hey guys he’s throwing up. Lets get him!”
from memory… if anyone can find the story it may help
Rohan Marley
“The Rock” was on that team as well, but sidelined with an injury.

87 Defense
Rob Burnett, Terry Wooden, Marcus Paul, Ted Gregory, Paul Frase
Offense: Rob Drummond, Pat Kelly, Rob Moore, Tommy Kane (see Marvin Harrison)
SHAMARKO!
"WHEN THE WAGON BLASTER TAKES OFF dont try to get in. THE SPACESES ARE LIMITED FOR WINNING ATTITUDE GODZILLA IS COMING GET READY" - abayarde
Rob Moore, Donovin Darius?
Moore
Up there in every statiscal category for wideouts (3rd in rec. yards, 1st in TDs, 1st in yard per game). Decent in the NFL and also is trying to revive the current crop of WRs.
Darius
Huge hitter, used to knock peoples heads off, good against the run and in coverage, good NFL career
Great call on Reyes as a lock
Unfortunate that he played during such a forgettable era in Syracuse football, as I sort of feel like he’s the Marvin Graves of modern SU tailbacks—one of the all-time greats who might not feel the love he deserves (to no fault of his own).
Floyd Little?
I know hes part of the 44 grouping but he was pretty good…
by Wes Johnson Might Be God on Aug 28, 2010 5:31 AM EDT reply actions
Olindo Mare
while we’re at it
"It's not drinking alone if you is on webcam, remember that!"
dan conley...
..i love this blog with all my heart but any ring of honor without dan conley would be omitting one of the all time greats to wear the orange and blue. and i couldn’t agree with the marvin graves comments more. 3 yards short of beating a ridiculous Miami team. That game still haunts me to this day. he was an SU great. The ring of honor needs to reward players college careers, not how they wound up as pros. this is an awesome post and a great idea…keep up the great work, sean…
Bill Hurley
At Syracuse, Hurley to put up big numbers for the Orange. As a sophomore, Hurley threw for 329 yards against ninth-ranked Penn State, breaking the school record by nearly 100 yards. Bill was a four-year starter at Syracuse (as well as captain and team MVP junior and senior years), and set 23 game, season, and career records. He finished his Orange career ranked first in passing, first in total offensive yards, and third in rushing, the latter an astounding statistic at a school which counts Jim Brown, Larry Csonka, and Floyd Little among its alumni. Along the way, Hurley became just the third quarterback in modern NCAA history to rush for at least 2,000 yards and pass for at least 3,000 yards in a career.

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