Jim Boeheim Not Cool Playing Ohio State, Totally Cool Playing Cincinnati
NY Times writer Pete Thamel had a solid write-up on the one issue that some people still don't seem to grasp about the Big Ten expansion the role Syracuse could play in it. It's all about football, folks. Basketball is nice and Syracuse comes steeped up to its eyeballs in tradition and cache in that regard...but basketball doesn't put (figurative) food on the table. Football does.
One certainty was reaffirmed, though. Every major decision will be based on two factors: money and football. That has become clear in the uncertainty surrounding the Big East, which could lose multiple teams to the Big Ten largely because the conference television payout is projected to be nearly triple the Big East’s $7 million for football programs.
As Thamel says, if Syracuse has to decide whether or not to jump, it will not let the Georgetown basketball rivalry hold it back. As you can imagine, Jim Boeheim is not pleased by that knowledge. You already knew Jimmy B was against the notion of going to the Big Ten. I mean, this guy is more responsible for the Big East than any other active member of the league.
" is in the A.C.C., and no one cares about it there," Boeheim said of the former Big East program that joined the Atlantic Coast Conference in 2005. "They have hung on in football, but Miami and Florida State will get strong again and they’ll be an afterthought in football.
"I don’t think we’ll do well in the Big Ten. It’s possible, but I don’t think we’d do well at all. I just don’t see how Syracuse or Rutgers fits in with Iowa and Illinois."
First...ouch B.C. I wouldn't say no one cares but certainly BC is more of a middle-of-the-pack program in the ACC than it was in the Big East. The Eagles had a great thing going in basketball and football and could have dominated the conference for a while. Of course, they'll probably counter that by saying they've made more money in the last five years than they ever could have in the Big East, and therein lies the point.
As for "I just don’t see how Syracuse or Rutgers fits in with Iowa and Illinois," I see Jim's point and at the same time I don't see it at all. Sure, it sounds weird to suddenly consider Illinois and Iowa rivals. Guess what else sounded really weird? Suddenly considering Cincinnati, Marquette, DePaul, Louisville and South Florida rivals. Now we don't even question it (except for DePaul, which we greatly question) but its not really that much different. Becoming Ohio State's rival is not a good idea but being Cincinnati's rival is? Logic go boom.
Boeheim also questions whether or not New York City kids will want to play for Big Ten schools, which, again, is weird because they already do. And I really don't think high school athletes who are so good that they receive scholarship offers from Big Ten and Big East schools get too caught up on conference alignments. And if nearby programs like Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn are in the Big Ten, what's the alternative? Playing for Seton Hall in a depleted Big East? Meh.
Speaking of Seton Hall, we have to end with their new head coach Kevin Willard's comments. When asked about the effect the possible moves will have on the nonfootball schools, Willard offers up this dubious piece of revisionist history.
"You look at the core of what makes the Big East, it’s the nonfootball schools."
To be fair, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Providence have provided the conference with a lot of great memories and moments. And almost all of those memories and moments took place in the 1980's. If you want great Big East memories since then, you have to look to Syracuse, UConn, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Louisville, Miami and Pittsburgh. Not to say the nonfootball schools haven't had their moments, but, more often then not it's the other way around.
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Yeah, but...
As for “I just don’t see how Syracuse or Rutgers fits in with Iowa and Illinois,” I see Jim’s point and at the same time I don’t see it at all. Sure, it sounds weird to suddenly consider Illinois and Iowa rivals. Guess what else sounded really weird? Suddenly considering Cincinnati, Marquette, DePaul, Louisville and South Florida rivals. Now we don’t even question it (except for DePaul, which we greatly question) but its not really that much different. Becoming Ohio State’s rival is not a good idea but being Cincinnati’s rival is? Logic go boom.
The difference is that joining the Big Ten is like joining a conference full of Cincinnatis, Marquettes, and Louisvilles. In the Big East, those teams are the outliers that you can deal with them not “fitting,” because you also have UConn, West Virginia, Georgetown, Villanova, etc. In the Big Ten, Syracuse is the outlier and is the team that doesn’t “fit.” There’s nobody else (aside from the other team or two that moves with them) to balance it out.
And, as a matter of clarification, I don’t think anyone considers the former C-USA teams to be “rivals.” They’re just other teams in the conference that Syracuse has to play.
Also
Yes, most able-minded people would rather be in a league with Ohio State than Cincinnati, but we’re not just swapping those two teams. You’re also swapping Georgetown for Northwestern, Villanova for Minnesota, etc, etc.
Or
are we swapping Georgetown for Michigan and Villanova for Michigan State?
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
Clearly I have been owned. Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’d much rather play Gtown/Nova than Michigan/Michigan State.
Seriously, Michigan?
by mcsteve on Apr 26, 2010 3:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's a football decision
hoops is just about as important as all the non-revenue generating sports in this decision
nonconference opponents.
plus, if we went to the Big Ten, Pitt, UConn, and/or Rutgers would likely be as well. Would you swap Central Florida for UConn or Pitt?
Jimmy B's point is not very good
Considering Pitt, Rutgers, and Notre Dame could be joining, we could already have those 3 as “rivals” plus Penn State.
Not to mention that Purdue and Indiana are slightly closer than Louisville is, WVU is about as close as the Michigan schools. Obviously Ohio State is slightly closer than Cincinnati. Marquette/Wisconsin are virtually the same, as is Illinois/DePaul/Northwestern.
Besides, we would fly everywhere anyway for basketball so it shouldn’t matter. Syracuse is Syracuse and if we are good we will sell out most opposing arenas as we do in the Big East.
If the rivalries are that important(which I pray GTown/UConn are), they will schedule games every year like UK/Louisville do. Recently we’ve been willing to go to UVA and Memphis, so going to a Big East school OOC shouldn’t be a problem.
If the rivalries are that important(which I pray GTown/UConn are), they will schedule games every year like UK/Louisville do.
I don’t understand why you don’t have more people saying this. The basketball schedule is big, and losing games to good teams isn’t the season-ender like it is in football. If you want to play the teams, do a basketball version of the Beanpot or something. There’s plenty of room and not much to lose.
I know about your diabolical plan.
scheduling
You ever notice who Syracuse schedules for the Thirteen or so non-conference games at the start of the season? Typically, they are not the most challenging teams. This past year was a bit of an exception with North Carolina, Florida, and Cal – though they all turned out to have sub par seasons. Is Syracuse going to schedule G’town, UCONN, or ‘Nova instead of the usual cupcake? Probably not. However, a ’Carrier Classic’ tourney of all old school Big East teams would be epic.
Orange you glad it's not football season?
I think they most definitely would.
We’ve had to step up the nonconference schedule in recent years thanks to the selection committee anyways, and I guarantee Boeheim understands the importance of his biggest rivalries.
Goes beyond that
It is not CHOOSING to go to the Big 10. It is being CHOSEN by the Big 10.
This whole thing is like the kid from Willy Wonka winning the ticket and then thinking that all that candy is going to give him a stomach ache. If you win… you win! You go.
$24M for the school each year. What did the Dome cost? Pretty close to that, if I recall correctly. I am sure nobody envisions making that per yera.
Make $4M to stay in the Big East? We would survive in basketball. But I am not sure that the remnants of the Big East would be better than the A-10. Want to go 24-6 and be on the bubble? Sounds like fun.
Plus, the whole purpose of Big 10 expansion to include Syracuse would be to expand the Big 10 network into these regions. That kid from NY can watch Syracuse on the Big 10 Network instead of ESPN2.
Fios
The Big Ten Network isn’t part of my Verizon FIOS plan, it would be an added cost. I doubt that kid is going to beg his parents to subscribe to the Big Ten network so he can watch Syracuse get gutted by Penn State and Ohio State in football. Heck, I don’t see myself subscribing to the Big Ten network for that. I’ll catch the highlight videos and recap on ESPN.com. While adding Rutgers, Pitt, and (hopefully?) Syracuse might get the BTN added to basic cable packages for people in NY and NJ, I doubt this is going to push BTN into a nation wide basic cable package member – which means my viewing of Syracuse football games go from Free in the Big East (occasionally on ESPN or ESPN2) to costing money to subscribe to the BTN as an added channel. I just don’t feel inclined to pay extra to watch Syracuse play football – especially against the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State. Maybe it’ll be different when they become more competitive… As for basketball, yes I would pay for the BTN if they televised a lot of Syracuse games. I can only imagine what mid western commentators will say of Syracuse’s “new fangled” up-tempo offense…
Orange you glad it's not football season?
So in other words, you would pay.
Paying to get basketball, but not necessarily football is still paying and still gets the team into the household potentially.
FIOS will bend
One of the things BigTen Network can do … precisely because of who they represent, is that they demanded cable companies, etc.. in our area carry them on basic cable. I get BigTen network in analog.
by Lloyd Severence on Apr 26, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And for what it's worth...
Boeheim also questions whether or not New York City kids will want to play for Big Ten schools, which, again, is weird because they already do.
Here’s the complete list of New York City-area basketball players currently on Big Ten rosters (according to ESPN):
Trevon Hughes, Wisconsin (Queens)
Ryan Harro, Penn State (from New Fairfield, CT, so we’re reaching a bit. He also appears to be a walk-on, so I doubt this is the type of player Jimmy is worried about losing)
Aaaaand that’s it.
Ouch.
That’s always been my concern. Baltimore more than New York City to be honest, but still, losing both would be bad. Maybe we wouldn’t, but I suspect recruiting would change.
I was specifically looking for NYC-area kids, but I don’t remember seeing too many from the Baltimore/DC/Philly region, either. Most of the Big Ten schools seem to get the majority of their players from their own state.
That’s not to say Syracuse wouldn’t still be able to pull NYC/Philly/Balt/DC kids, perhaps they still can, but Boeheim’s fears at least have some merit, and it’s ridiculous to say it won’t be a problem at all because NYC kids “already play in the Big Ten.”
by mcsteve on Apr 26, 2010 2:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed, but...
The team loved playing in the Garden the past few years. That probably is a big selling point to a lot of kids. We most likely would lose that with any move to the Big 10.
Other than Southerland, Mookie, and a few walk-ons...
there aren’t any players on the Cuse these days from the greater NYC area.
This is not to marginalize the importance of Southerland or Mooke, but I don’t think that basketball recruiting is as regional as football. These days, I would be more concerned about losing Baltimore and Philly.
The Bottom Line
Is that the decades-long dysfunction in the way college football is organized is about the wreak all sort of havoc on college athletics. When the main college athletic revenue generator operates under a system where teams in 5 of the 11 conferences have no shot at a national title, there’s no way you can expect things to go smoothly.
So sorry basketball and lacrosse and field hockey and swimming – your life is about to change, because the headless monster that is college football is hungry.
96 Team NCAA Tourney
One thing that would aid football realignment would be expanding the NCAA b’ball tourney to 96 teams. IF almost every school that plays basketball is guaranteed a spot, conferences become nearly irrelevant.
Orange you glad it's not football season?
Every major decision will be based on two factors: money and football.
That’s a little misleading: the reason people are about football is because of the money, not because of the football.
I know about your diabolical plan.
Yes and Yes.
Which is why I watch lacrosse and hockey, so that one day they might not be afterthoughts and/or bumped on networks by the world series of poker and that sport where you run on logs and try not to fall over.
So far it’s not working.
I know about your diabolical plan.
I agree with Jim Boeheim.
I don’t see what the football team has done recently to warrant basing our decisions around football. Ideally we live in the fertile recruiting ground that includes NJ and PA anyway and I don’t think players from Ohio or Michigan would want to come to NY. Also, as many of you know, I despise the arrogance and pompousness of fans of the Little Eleven and I will not be standing up for Illinois, Ohio State, and ESPECIALLY Purdue fans against the Big East.
I promise you this: if Syracuse bolts for the Big Ten, if a Big Ten team other than Syracuse is playing a Big East team not named Georgetown or UConn, I will be rooting for that Big East team. I will have no “conference loyalty” to a conference that is a MAJOR part of the problem facing college football (Jim Delaney and the Ohio State AD are two of the big roadblocks to a playoff).
I won’t allow us to give up basketball or even lacrosse for football. I don’t want to see our prestige in either of those sports crash.
by adselver15 on Apr 26, 2010 10:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
it won't.
Syracuse is still Syracuse, it doesn’t matter what conference we’re in. We’re arguably one of the top college basketball programs ever, and that isn’t going to change. Our name is a huge draw. The Dome is a huge draw. We will still have Boeheim. We will still have the 2-3 Zone. The only thing that really changes is our opponents. Keep Georgetown a yearly rival, perhaps UConn as well if possible. Other than that, we’ll see Michigan State, Ohio State, Indiana, Illinois, etc. every year instead of the likes of Nova, Marquette, WVU, and South Florida. I dunno guys, I don’t see much wrong with that at all. It’s just going to be different.
Plus it is a move that is PLENTY good for football. Let’s remember that.
"Wes Johnson's your daddy and daddy's hungry, bitches!"
Something will change though.
This one’s kinda selfish, but I won’t be able to watch SU anymore if they leave the Big East unless they’re on ESPN or CBS. SNY won’t air SU games here.
Big 10 network
will solve your ills
Syracuse '12
by blackknight76 on Apr 27, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't like it one bit
Basketball and Lacrosse have been our sanctuary from 5 straight awful football seasons. It took long enough to get used to playing USF and Cincy. Please don’t make me get used to a whole new conference in hoops.
And as far as football ‘putting food on the table’, the cubbards been bare for a while.

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