Jeff Goodman And Gary Parrish Are Nothing If Not Predictable
by Sean Keeley on Feb 28, 2010 11:30 PM EST
55 comments
Before you see the new rankings tomorrow, I wanted to make a few bold predictions for you, including:
- Syracuse will be the new AP and Coaches No. 1, but not by as much as you expected them to be.
- You will read the phrase, "I have Syracuse No. 1, but I still think Kansas has a better resume" at least fourteen times.
- You will read articles by learned people rationalizing why Kansas being undefeated at home is better than Syracuse being undefeated on the road. (Which of those two things is more important once the tournament starts, by the way?)
- You will NOT hear any of the people who vote for Kansas No. 1 over Syracuse mention that the Big East is twice as tough of a conference than the Big 12. Which it is.
Undeniably(Admittedly, I was a little overzealous on that one. Rescinded). - You will still read about Syracuse and their lack of "true road games." In March. Seriously. I know, I know...
Before tonight, if you had asked me "Which two voters are most likely to not put Syracuse atop their Top 25 this week despite everything that's happened?" Jeff Goodman would have been a no-brainer. He hasn't liked SU all season. Not in a mean way. He just doesn't respect them. Perhaps its even a subconscious thing but he's always had them lower than most. As for the 2nd one, I think Gary Parrish might have been my next choice. I always feel like Gary and his Fauxhawk are picking against SU in every game preview they do, so I think he/they would have made a good pick.
And look what I found...Goodman has Kansas No. 1 and so does Parrish.
I personally enjoy both rationales. They both decided BEFORE SYRACUSE EVEN PLAYED that Kansas would retain their No. 1 ranking. Regardless of the fact that Syracuse demolished a team that has spend most of the season in the top five the same weekend Kansas lost to an unranked team, the No. 4 Orange had no chance of consideration. Syracuse could have won by fifty and eaten Villanova's starting five with knives and forks and they still would have been so unimpressive as to not garner No. 1 status. That seems...fair?
So, go back and read those predictions and don't say you weren't warned when you see the rankings. Syracuse will be the new No. 1 but you're not going to feel good about it. You're going to feel bitter over all of the folks who STILL don't deem the Orange worthy.
(To be fair, I get that Kansas has indeed put together a very impressive body of work. But...they lost. And we won. This is how weekly polls work. I didn't create the system, you people did. So at least do it the way you've been doing it for years.)
Honestly, it's for the best. The longer this team keeps a chip on their shoulder, the better. They're going to need all the motivation they can get heading into the BET and NCAA Tournament when everyone is really gunning for them. And not just the voters...
Update: Goodman did a webcast with Wes Johnson tonight (from a house of mirrors). He tells Wes that he's voting Kansas No. 1 and Wes can't help but laugh. Perfect.
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I think you are underrating the Big12 just a bit
It’s a very good league imo. They will be getting 7 teams in NCAAs.
Not even close to big east
Take the bottom of big 12 and compare them to bottom of big east there’s no question top to bottom big east is the dominant league
there
is no way the Big East is twice as good, undeniably. I mean there are 7 Big 12 teams getting in. That’s more than 50 percent. They have beaten Memphis, Temple, Cornell, Xavier, Illinois, Pitt, Michigan St. and UTEP out of conference. Those are very comparable to the Big East ooc wins. They are first in conference RPI for god’s sakes. I know the Big East may be a little deeper due to more teams, but twice as good? That’s a little over the top.
And there is way too much emphasis on rankings
Honestly, why should anyone give a flying fuck what these panel of writers thinks anyways? These are some of the same morons that arbitrarily rate teams using the “eye test”. They cherry pick random statistics to support their biases (lol Goodman points out that KU has won 4 of its 8 games against NCAA tourney teams in “true road games”, while Syracuse has only won 2!)
It really doesnt matter at all. This isn’t football.
The only thing that matters is our NCAA tournament seed. We have a one seed 98% locked up. Fans need to think about the big picture.
Would it be so bad to be #2?
And keep that giant chip on the collective shoulder of the team? This team thrives on being underrated and they believe that they should be #1. As do I. So what better way to fend off any chance of creeping complacency than by being disrespected after their biggest win of the season?
That said, it would be some sweet, sweet orange nectar (?) to see Cuse atop the polls tomorrow!
I agree, don't think it would be so bad to be #2
you’re right, they do seem to play better when they feel they’ve been slighted. We have to play the Johnnies tomorow and after all the emotion of Sat. night, getting a #1 might keep it rolling and I wouldn’t want another L’Ville situation (after we leap-frogged Nova)
You know I love you Nunes, but you can’t say that the Big East is “undeniably” twice as tough as the Big 12. I think it’s the best conference, but it’s getting most of it’s rep back based on intraconference wins now, which is what EVERY conference does..heck, Cornell lost to a terrible Penn team, you’re going to lose to teams in your own conference, regardless of disparity in talent.
Let’s look at some of the horrendous losses some of the Big East teams have incurred. Pitt lost to Indiana. Uconn lost to Michigan, Georgetown lost to Old Dominion, Louisville lost to Western Carolina and Charlotte (not as egregious..but both were home games), Marquette lost to NC State, Notre Dame lost to Northwestern and Loyola Marymount, Providence lost to Iona (and many more),and these are all off the top of my head.
So why are you so insistent that the Big East is some juggernaut conference? Is it b/c they’ve beaten up on each other (like every other conference)?
No way it’s twice as tough as the BIg 12. In fact, would you honestly be that surprised if more Big 12 teams are around in the second weekend?
by Cursedcleveland.com on Mar 1, 2010 12:13 AM EST reply actions
Fair enough
that I was probably slightly out of bounds on calling the BE much better than the B12. But it is a better conference, whether by a lot or a little.
B12 will get a lot of teams in the tourney, BE will have three Final Four teams.
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
I love the Big East
But I think they will get one in. And that’s it. I refuse to buy into Villanova, West Virginia, Georgetown and Pitt. You think two of those squads are going to make the final four? I certianly don’t. Nova struggles defensively. You never know what your getting out of WVU and Gtown and Pitt has never made a final four even with their juggernaut teams.
Didn't we rape the whole big 12 in the 03 tourny
That was the year they were actually the best conference
yup
and the BE only had one final four team that year. Big 12 had two.
Syracuse > the entire Big 12!
"It’s just that, reading through this thread, it appears you’re getting your ass kicked." -jtothep
by ReadingRambler on Mar 1, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
This comment on the Parish Blog Post says it all...
“Your logic is flawed. Syracuse has 4 top 10 RPI wins Kansas has 1.”
by 'CuseConnection on Mar 1, 2010 12:48 AM EST reply actions
I will not be bitter about the #1 ranking
I will enjoy it a little, but realize it is a meaningless ranking.
Get the 1 seed, get two not-true “home” games (see what I did there) in Buffalo, and hope for great things from our Jurassic 7.
Go Orange(men)!
Just watched the video
Goodman looks like he’s got a Lenny Dykstra hunk of chaw in his cheek. And asks nothing but sideline-bimbo-level questions. Nice to see Wes politely tolerating him and answering everything properly and humbly, but I’m starting to believe Goodman is doing nothing but clogging up the intertubes.
http://cusecountry.com
Kansas is tough
Hey anybody whos marquee non conference win is Temple and eeks by UNC by 2 should be number 1.
Parrish
I read Parrish alot and here is the thing with him; he doesn’t hate Syracuse or anything like that, but he has this theory that he brings up a few times a year. It goes something like this: only teams with 3 NBA players can win the NCAA tourney (he always mentions that SU 03 is the only execption in the last 20 years). So based on that theory, he doens’t see 3 NBA players on Syracuse and therefore has and will countinue to discount them all year, until he is conviced SU has 3 NBA players. We have 1 and I think several others have a shot, in time…however we don’t clearly have 3.
by orangemennotorange on Mar 1, 2010 7:43 AM EST reply actions
THIS IS RIDICULOUS
Not that the theory is flawed. Maybe its true, looking back historically, but how can Parrish get away with denying there are three NBA players on this team?
1. Wes. Obviously. (although he has a lot to work on, which we all know.)
2. KJo. If you don’t think Joseph is a future top 15 pick, youre insane. With his jumpshot coming around (and, provided he works on it this summer, sure to get much better by next year) and his ability to finish around the hoop, he’s a GUARANTEE to be a starter in the NBA. I don’t know how much pro ball people around here watch, but I watch a lot. He has about 500% chance more of being a quality NBA player than Cole Aldrich. Not that I would be afraid of my team drafting Aldrich, just that players in that position often struggle much more, for longer, than athletic wings with good ball handling, a solid jumpshot, and strength and body control in the air. And he plays starters minutes and puts up starters stats.
3. Rautins. Ignore it or not, he’s going to be a second round pick, and if he can prove he can play an adequate amount of NBA man on smaller guards (I think he can) and can play a little faster, he will get minutes in the league for years. He’s big, fairly athletic, great passer (when he’s not terrifying me on occasion), gives huge effort on D, and has the quickest release you will find in college basketball. At 6’5’’ish, he’s an NBA player. Without question.
Thats ignoring that Rick Jackson will certainly get drafted, Triche has the size and tools to (with time) be a gigantic prospect (while we all concede his production and contributions are diminishing a great deal as of late). I honestly have no idea about AO and Scoop (remember, he’s a 6-1 PG (decent size) who can finish and has an improving jumpshot, 2 more years of PT and maturity and you can see him being a later draft pick).
For Parrish to say we don’t fit this formula of his means he either refuses to acknowledge that Rautins and KJo have improved so much this year or that he doesn’t know anything about basketball, plain and simple. Size and athleticism matter in terms of NBA prospects, and this team has plenty. If you push the formula and say you need 3 first round picks to win the tournament, then convince me that using NBA GM’s basketball IQ and judgement is a relevant factor. Because I believe last years number 2 pick is in the D league.
Regardless of the "who is going to be in the NBA"
The man already acknowledges that SU does not fit his theory on a recent occasion, however, he still can’t make the leap that a great coach with a team concept (zone defense) can overcome the shortcoming he believes we have.
And that is where he fails.
Go Orange(men)!
That is ridiculous
To say that team won’t win the title without 3 NBAers is so revisionist. Cuse didn’t have 3 NBA guys in 2003. Maryland had 3 average to terrible NBA guys in 2002. Memphis didn’t have 3 (Joey Dorsey counts?) in 2008 and was a missed FT away from winning a title. I guess not having that 3rd NBA player did them in! So it doesn’t matter what type of NBA player it is as long as they make the league?
Some rule. I dislike Goodman by the day. Not because of not ranking Syracuse number 1, but because of his ridiculous theories.
How does he define NBAers I wonder?
Mateen Cleaves didn’t exactly have a long and prosperous NBA career.
"It’s just that, reading through this thread, it appears you’re getting your ass kicked." -jtothep
by ReadingRambler on Mar 1, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
He mentions SU 2003 as the one team who does not fit his theory
Again, the theory itself is poor, but he already said SU doesn’t fit his theory recently, then disregards that fact in making his current statement. WTF is up with that logic fail.
Go Orange(men)!
Cornell???
Syracuse won by 15, I think. Kansas was down the whole game and needed some home cooked officiating to pull that out at home. Why not ask Steve Donahue who the better team is. I’d love to hear those idiots say something like “I know you played both teams Coach and as a coach have evaluated every aspect of both teams, then went out and actually played them on their home floors- losing by 15 at Cuse and nearly beating Kansas- but I still feel that Kansas is a better team.”
Remember when Gottleib said a few weeks ago “In a head-to-head I’d pick Syracuse because of the zone but I still think Kentucky has a better team.”
I know, I know. It doesn’t matter but how do these jackasses have jobs? Seriously.
"Send it in Jerome!!!!"
Just thought of something...
Last time Syracuse was Number 1 in the regular season was 1990-91. I am 100% sure of it. My dad (who went to ’Nova) posted the newspaper clipping “Villanova tops number 1 Syracuse” and left it on the fridge for the rest of the season.
Ironic huh? Last time they were #1 they fell to the Wildcats which dropped them from the top spot. If in fact ’Cuse tops the polls today they have beat ’Nova to get there.
NICE!!
I'd vote Syracuse No. 1
But this:
You will NOT hear any of the people who vote for Kansas No. 1 over Syracuse mention that the Big East is twice as tough of a conference than the Big 12. Which it is. Undeniably.
No. The Big East has become the SEC of college basketball — a great conference that has a hyper-inflated view of its own greatness. Last year? The Big East was head and shoulders above every conference in the country. This year? Not a chance.
You ain't hurt...
by Peter Bean on Mar 1, 2010 8:13 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
While I love the statistical analysis
Sure, the numbers say so, but intuitively, that makes no sense. If Texas were playing as well as they were expected, then maybe you could make the Big XII argument, but it just doesn’t hold water.
I don’t even want to dignify the supposition that the ACC is the best conference with a response.
by Rocket Ship Science on Mar 1, 2010 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
UConn-Louisville
Anyone else notice the guy wearing the “Beat ’Nova” behind the Cards’ bench? I know there are some readers here who are from CT, so if that was any of you- kudos. We’re all very proud of you. If not, someone should find out who it was and we can take up a collection and buy them a beer or something.
"Send it in Jerome!!!!"
I think people also forget we clobbered Kansas last year
We beat Kansas last year in a de facto road game. That was with a team that played half the defense this SU team does, and with a major ball hog in Devo. If I remember that game Aldrich and Collins didn’t look too good. I know it was last year, but food for thought.
by upstateNYYFan1984 on Mar 1, 2010 9:45 AM EST reply actions
not exactly clobbered
we needed to switch to man-to-man D to win that game in OT and we were down double digits. KU was picking the pourous version of the 2-3 apart. AO did outduel Aldrich though.
"It's not drinking alone if you is on webcam, remember that!"
Goodman!
That was an extremely uncomfortable video to watch. What can we legally do to these a-holes?
by Pinballwzrd83 on Mar 1, 2010 10:00 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Goodman!
That was an extremely uncomfortable video to watch. What can we legally do to these a-holes?
by Pinballwzrd83 on Mar 1, 2010 10:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I think this is the week that voters realize polls are a joke
and decide that teams don’t have to actually drop just because they lost. Kansas will eek out the #1 spot. I’m fine with that and I think you could make the argument that it’s correct.
Right now Kansas and Syracuse have similar resumes. Both have two losses. Kansas’ second loss just comes more recently than Syracuse’s. If Cuse moves to #1, it’s largely just the timing of it all, which is why polls are a joke in the first place.
Anyway, I’ll be happy with #2. I’ll be happy with #1. But I’ll be ecstatic with that #1 seed in the NCAA tournament, which is what matters most.
Now, if Syracuse is anything but #1 or #2, then I will be pissed.
by voteprime on Mar 1, 2010 10:18 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Didnt we own Kansas in Kansas
last year? I know they are much improved but so are we. Stylistically, I think we could match up well with them. I know we win inside. Their advantage was the wings and 3pt shot, but with Wes and Kris, I dont think there are 3 better wings and our our zone extends beyond the 3.
It was
in Kansas City, I think. That’s why they are so hyped for their “home” winning streak.
"Send it in Jerome!!!!"
by AndyKinsella on Mar 1, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
To be fair, Lawrence and Kansas City are about 40 miles apart...
And Syracuse is 1,130 miles away. So it was practically a home game for the Orange.
by DMF on Mar 1, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
NO!
THAT COUNTS AS A HOME GAME FOR SYRACUSE. DONT YOU KNOW HOW THAT WORKS BY NOW?
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
"And Syracuse is 1,130 miles away. So it was practically a home game for the Orange."
I know how it works. If SU plays St Johns at MSG? Home game for the Cuse. If SU plays Florida in Tampa? Home game for the Cuse. If SU plays Rutgers at the RAC? Home game for the Cuse. If SU plays GTown at the Verizon Center? Home game for the Cuse.
BUT
the Big Ten should take Rutgers over Syracuse to get the NYC market.
If you're going to take Rutgers..
…you have to take Seton Hall too. You can’t afford to break up THE RIVALRY
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
Please take Rutgers and Seton Hall.
In fact, have West Virginia too.
"Send it in Jerome!!!!"
by AndyKinsella on Mar 1, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
We already have Northwestern (Seton Hall) and Minnesota (Rutgers?) and Michigan (WV).
"It’s just that, reading through this thread, it appears you’re getting your ass kicked." -jtothep
by ReadingRambler on Mar 1, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
CUSE IS #1
In a landslide – 59 first place votes. Kansas only got 6!
Does Parrish even count?
At least Goodman has a vote in the AP poll. Parrish? Not so much.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Parrish I could sorta stomach
Goodman’s argument is self-defeating and logically sparse. Kansas and Kentucky should not be punished for losing tough road games but Syracuse should not be rewarded for winning tough road games. It boggles the mind.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Mar 1, 2010 7:12 PM EST reply actions
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