Villanova, TCU, The Big East And You
by Sean Keeley on Oct 28, 2010 11:09 AM EDT
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It's been a while since we've stirred the rumor-mongering pot, let's see what's cookin'.
When we last left both TCU and Villanova, we were coming to the conclusion that the Big East needs both of them to play football and lock down two of the top five TV markets in the nation. Since then...not much.
Now news is creeping out that the MWC won't be getting Fresno and Nevada quite as soon as they'd hoped.
The main reason to keep Fresno State and Nevada in the WAC for football through the 2012 season is for scheduling purposes. Boise State is leaving for the Mountain West in 2011 and that leaves the WAC with eight teams, and had Fresno State and Nevada also left the Mountain West then the WAC would be down to six teams.
That means the MWC will have to wait a while reap the new-found benefits of Nevada football while also suffering through the loss of Utah and BYU. Expect the conference's reputation to start sliding back down the mountain it's spent the last decade climbing.
No one's said as much but, if you're TCU, now's the time to jump. And if the Big East really wants the Frogs, they should be in full-court press mode. We'll wait for Lenn Robbins to tell us what's up.
Meanwhile, there's the whole Villanova thing. The Wildcats make sense traditionally even if they're not the headline-maker that TCU is. Still, if this is a numbers game for the conference, and in some ways it is, then Nova remains the perfect new option.
According to Wildcats coach Andy Talley, they're finally going to make a decision in December. Maybe.
As far as what's been going on behind the scenes, it's been very quiet. I think Villanova is doing their due diligence, which is to spend time within the administrative level discussing pros and cons. And any discussion that's been going between Big East officials and Villanova, I haven't been privy to.
So I know a decision is going to be made some time in December, we hope, and at that point in time, it's really going to be whatever is in the best interest of Villanova University.
So mark it down. A decision is coming in December. We think. Or maybe not. But it should. Probably.
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it would be foolish for Nova
not to. Too bad they cant find a way to screw Temple out of playing time at Lincoln Field.
And they already have a nice cross town rival
in Temple. I think their only real question is where they can play on Saturdays. I know they have practice fields that have been OK for their FCS games, but I think the question is whos going to pay for the new stadium for their
It just really sucks that Temples got the lock on Lincoln Field. I mean, their basketball team plays in the pro Wachovia center across the street….
What is the attendance/stadium requirement for FBS membership?
searching now…..
The big thing is the financial committment
Even if ‘Nova finds a way around the stadium issue, they need to up the number of scholarships for 1A football, and meet Title 9, which means a matching increase in women’s sports – scholarships, new programs, and the like, or whacking some other men’s sports. Plus facilities upgrades and what not to be anything other than a door mat at the FBS level.
It’s easy to point at UConn and say “well UConn did it” but UConn is a state school with a lot more resources than a small Catholic Uni in Philly.
Honestly, I think in the end they won’t do it. The administration will take one look at the money involved stop the idea dead.
We will not rest until we see these capitalist octopuses annihilated.
-Che Marrone
not really
Villanova already has 63 scholarships for football, so they would only need 22 more to maximize their roster in D-1A. So, they add 1 women’s sport, BFD.
The add’l money they get from the Big East for football will offset the costs to add Women’s ice hockey or something…
not sure if it's that simple
but we’ll find out eventually.
We will not rest until we see these capitalist octopuses annihilated.
-Che Marrone
Nova
went down to the wire with Temple this year. Damn near beat them. Thats more than UConn can say. I dont think Nova is too far off from being a Big East level school, though thats not saying too much. The one thing we need though is to have ALL big east teams start recruiting nationally more. We cant support an entire BCS level league on left over guys from PA and NJ.
Id say a lot of that sounds problematic
But, they are doing it for their basketball team in NCAA Div1. And they have to realize it takes money to make money. And, they are pretty much letting Temple be the Big Dog Football squad in the Philly area, which is more than big enough to support two football programs.
I have a feeling they would only be a doormat for a couple seasons while they build up their scholarship program. There is a lot of talent in Penn, esp in the Philly area. Plus, less kids running off to the south or west to play when they can get time playing for a home squad.
Maybe
TCU is not leverage for Villanova… maybe Villanova is leverage for TCU to act now.
If they both came, there would be 10 teams…. not enough for a championship game, too many for a complete round robin of 9 games. Or, if we did go to 9 conference games, we would not get rid of the unbalance home/away schedule.
If you don’t have 12 teams, 9 is the perfect number.
Plus, if Rutgers were to get wooed to the Big 10 basement, we still have 8 teams… no loss.
17 basketball teams? Well, maybe TCU goes BE for football, somewhere else for everything else. If not, it’s been fun DePaul. Maybe next time shell out the money for a Lavin-esque coach.
If TCU comes on board
for all sports kick DePaul out the door and don’t look back. I don’t care if they’re in Chicago, they have no mind share and even if they can get their act together I doubt they’d ever be more than 5th or 6th banana.
We will not rest until we see these capitalist octopuses annihilated.
-Che Marrone
it would help
if I read all of your comment before adding mine saying exactly what you said. Ooops!
We will not rest until we see these capitalist octopuses annihilated.
-Che Marrone
True
But the hoops program is already in place, and in the grand scheme of things is cheaper to run than a big time football program. I don’t know how many FB scholarships that ‘Nova offers, but I think the FCS limit is between 60 and 65 – that means 20 to 25 more scholarships for FB. Assuming they ditch half of those by cutting a men’s team and add the rest for women, that’s a million bucks or more right there. FB coaches will want more money, they’ll need to start up a new women’s something, expand and upgrade weight rooms, yada yada yada.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to ‘Nova make the jump, and I agree that they could be successful, but I think the upfront cost will scare them shitless. The men’s FB team would be a money losing propostion for a while, which means all the excess cost to make the switch comes from the academic budget which will be a real hard sell in the current environment unless some uber rich alummi pony up the cash, and I don’t think VU has a lot of those.
We will not rest until we see these capitalist octopuses annihilated.
-Che Marrone
NCAA Rule 20.9.7.3 Football-Attendance Requirements [FBS] .
Once every two years on a rolling basis, the institution
shall average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football games.
the current stadium holds 12,500 +/-, and they only have seating on the sidelines. Is it possible to add another 6k seats behind the end zones? Play a special game or two (Temple, Syracuse, Pitt) at “home” at Franklin Field or the MLS stadium to help pad the attendance numbers. It’s not a great long-term solution, but it could alleviate some issues for the next few years…
There is NO room for expansion.
Nova is in a residential neighborhood, and expansion would NEVER get approved anyways.
Nova would have to make arrangements to use Franklin Field / The Linc / PPL Park / Citizens Bank Park.
The bigger issue IMO is finding 20,000 fans on a regular basis.
sure there is. Add temporary seating over the track opposite one endzone, complete the horsehoe around the other side of the track.
my version isn’t pretty (and demolishes some buildings that may or may not have been important) but it is possible.
And in terms of costs? Rutgers is selling the naming rights for premium seating for their stadium expansion, why can’t ’Nova?
Demolish buildings that "may" be important?
What a great idea.
We could expand the Dome by simply getting rid of unimportant buildings … like the Law School, the Geology Building, Archbold Gym, the Forrestry School, etc…
they are building a new law school anyways
I say DO IT! And we dont need the whole forestry school, just their lawn (evil smirk)
christ, lay off the hyperbole.
The buildings I was referring to appear to be some small outbuildings (equipment shed? ticket booth? concession stand?) I’m not sure and it’s hard to tell from an aerial. But, unless there is a concession stand listed on the Historic Registry, I’m guessing that they could be re-located.
You seemed to be familiar with the area so I thought for sure you that you would know which buildings I was referring to and weren’t being just some over-reacting fan who thinks they know a lot more than they really do.
Never been there.
But all the Villanova Alumni that I know say that expansion isn’t possible, and Nova doesn’t have the money for it anyways.
Unless you know people higher up in the Nova food chain than I do?
Whoa Whoa Whoa
Geology is totally important. Where else would the athletes take rocks for jocks? More importantly, where would I take rocks for jocks twice (long story).
by Jameson_Fleming on Oct 28, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I imagine...
… that in the short-term, the idea would be to make some temporary arrangements with various stadiums; in the long-term, the idea would be to out-bid Temple for the Linc on Saturdays (and get the Linc to install some FieldTurf; real grass in New England weather can’t handle an FBS football game and an NFL game in the same weekend). But I’m not sure how they’d get an average of >20,000 fans? Play Penn State every year?
15,000 is the minimum just to be an FBS team.
The Big East minimum is 20,000.
That’s why Temple got booted.
I'm not sure about that
It’s not clear it’s worth it for a small private school to spend a lot of money losing FBS football games (it’s not so great for a medium-sized to big school — by private school standards — as we well know). And if >12 team major conferences happen (which I don’t think they will, but a lot of people are convinced they’re inevitable), ‘Nova is pretty much doomed to be on the outside looking in as the SEC cannibalizes the Texas 10 and ACC; the Big Ten cannibalizes the Texas 10 and us; and what’s left of the ACC grabs what’s left of the Big East football members.
Amen
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