Four Things The Big East Conference Needs To Do Right Now
by Sean Keeley on Dec 16, 2009 3:52 PM EST
82 comments
The Big Ten is coming for us. Maybe not us as in Syracuse but us as in the Big East. Talk all you like about Missouri and Nebraska and Boise State but at the end of the day the most obvious scenario for Big Ten expansion involves someone from the Big East jumping ship. Yes, Notre Dame makes the most sense but they're Notre Dame which means they're going to be asshats about it. That leaves us. Our teams represent the best media markets and are the most vulnerable in the finance and stability categories. If the Big East wants to nip the rampant speculation that will occur over the next 12-18 months, they should do so now with these easy steps.
Grow A F***ing Pair
The Big Ten basically admitted yesterday that they intend to inquire about the possibility of sleeping with the Big East's wife. The Big East's reaction? "I don't want to talk about it." You don't want to talk about. Well guess what, neither did Tiger Woods. How's he doing? Meanwhile everyone and their mother has written a post about possible Big Ten expansion scenarios and 99% of them involve your teams.
What happened last time the Big East tried to play it cool at first? The ACC nearly destroyed the entire conference. Seven years later and we're finally getting back on track. But even so, we're still in an extremely vulnerable position, especially when another BCS conference is throwing goo-goo eyes and promised riches at one of our schools.
Commissioner Marinatto, you need to be less Bud Selig and more Roger Goodell right now. I don't care what you do...issue a statement, hold a press conference, put Greg Schiano in a headlock until he agrees to stay in the conference...whatever it is, do SOMETHING.
Begin The Process Of Calling Up Villanova
Seriously, I don't know how many times I need to say this. And I don't care if Villanova doesn't want to become 1-A. They need to be convinced that they should become 1-A, you see what I mean? We've got guys in Providence who can smack some sense into those Philadelphia knuckleheads, right?
I've ranted on the need to bring in Villanova to the Big East before but to reiterate, it literally solves every major issue we have. It adds a ninth team to the conference, rounds out the conference schedule so it's even, maintains the integrity of the conference by adding a school that is already a member and it gives the Big East back the Philadelphia market. The Cats can split time with Temple in Lincoln Financial Stadium for the time being.
Worried about their ability to compete? Don't. Look how quickly UConn and South Florida got it together. And the timing couldn't be more perfect for the Wildcats, they're in the 1-AA finals.
This needs to happen.
Stop Thinking Like A Basketball Conference
I know. The Big East was founded on basketball. Congratulation, you win a medal. Actually, no, you don't win a medal. You win nothing. All you get to do is allow DePaul, Seton Hall and St. John's to continue to pretend that they're still viable, long-term major conference programs and not overblown Atlantic-10 teams. Huzzah and kudos.
The Big East has been run by Providence guys for a long time and that's shaped a lot of how it's been run. Basketball first. But guess what, if the conference gets raided and Syracuse or Pitt leaves, they're not going to stick around for basketball. They're gone for good. A flagship basketball program will up and vanish like a fart in the wind.
Marinatto, I know you're not willing to make the truly tough decisions. The truly tough decisions would be to excise a lot of the regional school fat that's weighing the basketball conference down. So if you can't do that, at least reorganize the basketball side in order to accommodate football a little better. Whatever that means to you...be it splitting the basketball-only schools off from the "all-purpose partners" or just shifting the way we go about business. Just don't hide behind the excuse of "we're a basketball conference," because you won't have any good basketball programs left pretty soon.
Come Up With A Ten-Year Plan
Eventually, the Big East needs to consist of 12 teams. It just does. If we can't beat the SEC or Big Ten or Big 12 with quality, we need to at the very least match them with quantity. Especially now that the MWC is gaining steam and is likely to expand or do whatever it can to get a stronger BCS foothold, the Big East can't be the weakest AND the smallest BCS conference. We can one or the other, but not both.
I said it yesterday but college conferences are like sharks, they move forward or they die. If Big East football remains stagnant for the next 3-4 years and makes no plans to expand, it will cease to exist shortly-thereafter. It will get raided by the Big Ten or someone else.
Explore your options. Identify your targets. Let's cannibalize Conference USA now in order to prevent our own cannibalization. East Carolina? Central Florida? Memphis? Navy? Army? I don't care but make something happen. At this point its about saving your skin.
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You're right
All we need is one Big East coach to speak out about this nonsense and suggest Big East expansion and the ball will get rolling and the Big Ten will hopefully start to mind its own damn business. If we can get East Carolina, Villanova, maybe even UCF or dare I say Temple into the Big East we can get the ball rolling. We need to be at least a ten team conference in order to have the BCS stop snubbing our teams. Even though we’re a BCS conference we get snubbed. Case and point: BE#2 Pitt’s bowl game is UNC, BE#3 WVU is playing FSU. Two good teams playing two crappy teams. Hell, Syracuse 2009 could probably go at least 1-1 in those games. A team like Cincy will never play for a national championship if the Big East stays at 8 teams — and it will only get worse with only 7.
just so you know
WVU was BE#2
Pitt BE#3
Same BE record but WVU won head to head
While we're on the topic of strong-arming Catholic schools....
Giving Villanova “an offer they can’t refuse” is a viable, legitimate option to ensuring the Big East’s long-term health. Another option — force Notre Dame to go all-in or all-out.
If we were to do that, odds are they would withdraw from the Big East for all sports and join the Big Ten. But so what? We lose a middle-of-the-pack basketball school and… well, that’s it. Football controls when it comes to college athletics, but basketball is the one other sport that gets a lot of consideration. Losing Notre Dame for soccer/field hockey/track/etc. would not be a problem, given that (1) it is a long road trip for the rest of the Big East schools out to Indiana, and (2) the South Bend media market isn’t all that important (don’t give me the “Chicago market” argument – Chi-town doesn’t spend much time watching ND hoops – they follow the Illini). MORE IMPORTANTLY, if they leave for the Big Ten, we don’t have to worry about Pitt/Cincy/WVU get plucked away and losing a school important to football AND basketball.
And then there is the 1-in-100 chance that ND would fold and join the Big East for football…..
by Bernie Fine is the Man on Dec 16, 2009 4:12 PM EST reply actions
the ND ultimatum
has been mentioned for quite sometime, only this time, it makes complete sense. We get ND all-in, we can tell the Big Ten to get off our lawn. They leave, then all of their other sports have to latch onto a conference, and they will have no choice but to go to the Big Ten, because the Big Ten will not let ND be an independent for football if they get invited. Where else is ND going to go, the C-USA, the MAC? Yeah, that’s what i thought. The Big East has the ultimate bargaining chip in ND right now and they really do need to grow a pair and use it. It’s time for ND to repay its favor to the godfather, or get whacked. Then we can ease ’Nova in, which will lay the groundwork for a potential 12 team conference.
by chicagocuse on Dec 16, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not at all.
As long as they have the NBC contract and a personal route to the BCS, there’s no reason for Notre Dame to do anything.
Bowl tie-ins are mutually beneficial (even more so starting next year with the Tangerine Bowl).
There’s no leverage to strong-arm them.
That's fine
We don’t need to strong arm them. If they leave, they will quite possibly go Big 12, so we will be saved fretting about that conference picking-off one of the BE’s full-time members.
See ya, ND. Don’t forget to take Harongody’s 1952 flattop with you.
by Bernie Fine is the Man on Dec 16, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
Who?
is going to make them leave? SlingStone is absolutely correct. Is the NCAA going to make them join a conference? Doubt it. Notre Dame has the most rivalries out there…ND/USC, ND/Michigan, ND/Navy (yes, now it is), ND/BC, ND/Stanford…No chance they join Big 12….and no chance they give up their contract. Notre Dame is sitting in the drivers seat and can go wherever they want. Why give up that kind of control?
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on Dec 17, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
first thing should be
Force ‘Nova and ND to join for football. It gives us a nice 10 team conference and doesn’t change basketball at all. Give Notre Dame the ultimatum, all sports or no sports
oldies but goodies"
ARMY,NAVY AND MARYLAND. i am old person, 60, retired from the govt. and i well remember growing up in upstate ny, we used to play all three teams very…. frequently.basically, the original big east was cept for penn state, all the eastern independants, plus independants from the south, ie..VT and miami. i might be wrong, but were not GT, free shoes university/tallahasee, and even clemson or south carolina, independant of either sec or acc? unlike the ex head honcho, of the big east, who idlely sat by and let the acc raid the big east without any suites in court, fines, by the ncaa, etc.. time for this character, the new one, to earn his pay. that does not mean sitting in newport every aug, quaffing champagne and munching down on lobster.make a quick, michael corleone phone call to the clowns in the big 11" threaten court action. and get moving on getting maryland, navy and army back into the fold. the army navy game alone, would be worth it. as well as the prestiage of having both service academies represent us. after all, usaf in colorado springs, is in the mountain west? is that it? or the big sky or whatever the other one is called.. and maryland is one of our prime recruiting grounds for basketball, football, and lacrosse, too!
As someone who thinks we should be playing Maryland often
I’m all for it. ACC Raid time
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
Seems to me they have the same major reason to not leave their conference that we do
Maryland’s a pretty big part of ACC basketball history. I can’t see a scenario where they leave that behind.
by SpotOnSpotwood on Dec 16, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
From what I have read in the past Temple has the complete rights to the Linc. Also I do not see the eagles and the city allowing 3 teams to play on 1 field (it already is wrecked by November & all Sundays). Nova can’t play in current stadium as only holds 12,000 & no way of expanding in that area (especially parking, etc). Some ppl say move them to playing @ new Philly Union stadium (soccer), but it only holds 18,000 which is too small for Nova to use as a FBS school & nova fans aren’t going to drive to Chester PA from the wealthy main-line of PA. Nova is VERY different from USF or UCONN: those are both state schools (not small private schools) with huge amounts of land (UCONN has like unlimited land) for building facilities. Nova’s campus is full, and the properties are so costly around them that they wouldn’t buy them (houses go for up around a million dollars in that area). Also UCONN and USF started with plans to go FBS, nova doesn’t have a long term plan for it and they are playing for FCS championship.
If it was possible I agree it should happen but don’t think it will.
Other than that agree with other points.
I see Memphis as the next team to enter the league. They already are FBS (with a stadium of 62,000 seats) plus want to move up into bigger league. They’d also compete in other sports. If holtz stays @ ECU, that would also be another good team. It would keep Skip there as he would be recruiting BE instead of CUSA. I’d love to play Army or Navy every yr. Maybe steal Maryland.
Other than that agree with other points.
Fair enough
If Nova has to expand their own stadium the BE should subsidize it and make it happen
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
Point is there is not parking room, Lancaster Pike/Route 30 (where school is located) can’t handle the traffic now, not to mind if there are 20,000 more ppl showing up to games, just based on stats (Averaged 9,199 in 2007, and 6,691 in 2008-meaning in 2008 only had a total of around 40,000 ppl come to games when for FBS stadiums need to be around 30,000- http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/ncaa/sports+and+championship/general+information/stats/football/attendance/index.html ). I think it would be great but would make more sense to have a school like UDEL or another FCS school who has land and space to do it for football (move them up and have join in all sports or just go Memphis route) as the infrastructure in Lower Merion, PA doesn’t work.
sorry link didn’t work
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/ncaa/sports+and+championship/general+information/stats/football/attendance/index.html
damn
But if Syracuse can squeeze a 50,000 seat dome on their campus, so can ‘Nova. Yeah parking would be a nightmare, but so what. I’m obviously not as familiar with Philly but this can be done. BE needs to pony up the funds and/or pull some strings to make this work.
by bloodyyank44 on Dec 16, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
It is not even close to the same situation as the dome. My high school, (along with all the local ones), had graduation there (a few moons ago). I graduated with 450 and traffic was nuts. At ftbl and bball games (when on campus) it is packed and takes forever to get out with the roads barely handeling it . Literally they have 2 medium sized parking lots. SU has all those open lots by the dome plus all the parking on south plus parking in local neighborhoods (which isn’t allowed-I have had friends ticketed back there by nova). I have been to many SU ftbl games (didn’t miss one in the grob era for example) and went to a few nova games.
Look up 800 East Lancaster Ave, Villanova PA on google maps and do a satellite view. There looks to be a field there (it has old cemetery on it, and if made it a lot maybe adds 200 or so cars. All the trees around it are houses (many HUGE mansions) with ppl who wouldn’t approve it at zoning meetings. The only way to get it done would be to put a new stadium somewhere else, which off the top of my head can’t think of any open land in the area.
Also Syracuse’s campus is bigger than nova. Just look at student population for example (also land area is bigger on the hil): SU is 19,000 students-not including ESF. Nova is 9,000.
Aren’t there those two huge lots right across the street from campus? Or am I misremembering? Haven’t seen that campus for 5 years now (did one year of post-graduate school there, mostly because it was the only school in the northeast that I could get into that offered the degree I was seeking). so I probably have no clue what I’m talking about.
That and you could encourage people to take the train, considering that the R5 will drop you off right in the middle of campus.
But I don’t think there’s room to expand the stadium itself, regardless.
Found it
Syracuse-900 Acres (http://coursecatalog.syr.edu/introduction.aspx)
Villanova-254 acres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villanova_University)
So....
I made some phone calls and sent some texts (talking to ppl who know the area amazingly). There are 2 major possibilites we came up with:
1) Split time with UPENN at Franklin Field-It currently has a capacity of 52,000 (remember it was built in the late 1800s when Penn was good-they played in a rose bowl in the teens), Temple even played there when there were conflicts at the Vet in the 1990s mostly.
2) Nova plays off campus for baseball at a township park where they built a stadium. Why not do the same? As I said earlier there are not many places to do that in the area. In that location not many spots but then it hit me & a person I was talking too, near the King of Prussia Mall (2nd biggest mall in the USA) there was an old golf course that just got cleared to build one of those preplanned communities. Last I heard they were still going through approval for it and also with current economy struggling to get money for it(not sure if true anymore but likely is). It is near the three major highways of the area, plus there is plenty of space for a stadium and building some parking garages. Also the mall has lots of parking which if a deal was struck could be used too, and bus ppl over (about 2-3 minutes away). It is actually near a location that was one of the proposed locations for a new Phillies stadium in the late 1990s. It is about 15 minutes from campus.
welcome to the public joke, the" big 11"
a bunch of clowns who win the rose bowl, like say once a decade if they are lucky. cant even compare with the big east as far as basketball prowness.. and having watched college football for years, tressle represents the whole mentality out there, conservative, never take chances.. welcome to woody hayes part 2. shoot, at least the western confernces play exciting football.. houston, tcu, boise state, utah, offense or defense, one way or the other.. more then can be said for the staid, mindless big 11.
it comes down to Md.. plus navy for sure, and hopefully army
they have a massive fan and media base, both baltimore and midway to DC. and correct me if i am wrong, but from what i k now, they allready look at wvu , for many years, as rival.. and now playing rutgers frequently. right up !-95. plus, naval academy in annopolis, md, its a gimme! a na tural for the big east. and md, would fit in real, real good as far as lacrosse, and of course, is gary williams still the b ball coach? can u imagine, george town and md actually being rivals in the big east, b ball wise? unreal! and thats a real public affairs publicity coup big time if we had the army navy game as part of the big east schedule, where else, phillie! and lets not forget, navy almost, very close, almost beat the lame buckeyes in ohio! this fall!!
Not persuaded that we need to jettison basketball
What we need to do is protect football. if that can only happen by impacting basketball, then we have to do what we have to do.
But I would not destroy the conference just out of fear that a Big East team will leave. Instead, I think Syracuse, Pitt, and Rutgers need to reaffirm our membership in the BE and leave it to that. No viable 12-team solution for football makes us good enough in football and keeps us the same in basketball. It just doesn’t.
Add Memphis. Are they better than Pitt or Rutgers at football? No. They only add to BASKETBALL. What about ECU… not better than Pitt or Rutgers at football and much worse in basketball. Houston.. same. UCF… same. Army/Navy… same. Delaware… same. This gives us 12 teams for the sake of having 12 teams.
The MAC has 12 teams and who cares???? 12 teams doesn’t = BCS or good.
Moreover, for all we know, the Big 10 has it sights set on Missouri and only Mizzou. For us to foolishly impair basketball out of jealousy and concern/mistrust seems like a waste.
That is why the BE needs to act and act quickly. Figure out what Pitt, SU, and Rutgers are thinking and lock them (and everyone else in) on a plan.
Screw the Big 10… if the BE circles its wagons, the Big10 can pick a MAC or Big 12 school and leaves us to have our BCS spot and great hoops.
by ezcuse on Dec 16, 2009 4:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
1 hour from MSU
Western Michigan would at least fill a gap within Michigan.
There are no MAC teams
Besides maybe Buffalo that are academically qualified to join the Big Ten.
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Agreed.
I think it would be a huge mistake to expand with more lesser profile schools like Memphis, ECU, etc. It’s not the size of the league that will make teams leave or stay in the conference. Adding programs like that just waters us down and gives more credence to the BE being second rate.
Right now, the teams we have are all fairly competitive. Unless we can pull a home-run and get a BC or Maryland,it just shouldn’t happen.But unfortunately, those teams aren’t going anywhere.
And kick depaul out, will ya? Please!?!?
If we circle the wagons we will eventually lose our BCS spot to the MWC.
As a conference they are pretty much at our level now and at some point historical respect won’t be enough for us to point to. We can point to BCS bowl success, but in recent years so can they. The Big Ten may be invisible past Thanksgiving, but the Big East is basically non-existent. If we don’t show signs of progress (i.e. moving towards 12 teams and title game) it wouldn’t be at all surprising to hear talk of dumping us from the BCS within 5 years. The argument that they wouldn’t do anything for football doesn’t hold true. Louisville was supposed to be the only CUSA school we got that was going to compete in the BE. Now look where we are. ECU could be a good addition and if we simply replace Depaul with their basketball team it’s a wash there. While we all might be looking at 12 team scenarios the reality is we aren’t going to get to 12 all at once, so there won’t be any big shock to the system. We need to start somewhere though. Adding one or two teams within the next several years really should be a priority for the BE.
Ranking of potential teams
Here is my short list for BE expansion:
1) ND – Move in for football, or get the F out. Like Sean said, grow a pair.
2) Villanova – This move just makes too much sense for it not to happen.
3) Navy – one of the best football teams available, and it makes geographical sense. Lot’s of history and tradition to boot.
4) ECU – Longtime OOC rival for many BE schools. They could definitely hold their own in BE, not to mention the ACC or B10. And you can’t tell me that Skip Holtz doesn’t want to move up to a BCS conference. May not be the way he envisioned it, but he might have to wait awhile otherwise…
5) Marshall – Ok, so they haven’t been good since Byron Leftwich, but I like this pick because they have some good history/tradition, fit regionally and actually have a decent following. They are a program in need of a lift, and I think they deserving of one (more so than others).
Not quite:
Memphis – Honestly, do you really think they will be that good in football? Do we really need another basketball team (who really isn’t that good)?
Buffalo – Turner Gill is gone, and they’d make an in-state ‘rival’ for SU. They need to see if they could sustain improvement the next 2-3 seasons.
NO F’ING WAY:
BC – Screw that school. You invite them back and watch them laugh in our faces. Don’t give them that kind of satisfaction. Oh yeah, and Buck Foston.
Temple – NO NO NO NO NO. They had a good season this year. Big freaking deal. Villanova takes care of the Philly market, plus they’d likely be playing in the same stadium. Do you really want to invite them back to the BE, so they can go back to sucking?
Army – I’m all for the service academies, but 1 is enough. Army hasn’t proven they can beat anybody consistently, not to mention the Army’s policy on not allowing its players to enter the NFL draft is sure to keep them from getting talented recruits for a long time. They are a sure fire doormat for the conference for several years to come.
UCF – We already have one directional Florida representative (who also can’t seem to win past October), we don’t need another. Have any of you ever visited central florida? Trust me, you don’t want to.
Maryland – Why would we take away one of the prime reasons to make fun of ACC football? We don’t need their Gary Williams pit stains either.
BC
You really didn’t give any argument of substance as to why BC shouldn’t be a target of the Big East. Why would we want them back?
A- They have already been in the Big East(duh). However, the rumors out right now are that the alums and fans don’t like the long distances that they need to travel for every away game. According to google maps, Boston to Annapolis(the closest ACC school), is at least 6 hours away. Part 2 of this is that the budget for the school takes a hit from having to travel that far in every sport.
B- Your reasons are basically because you don’t like them leaving us. Guess what, SU would have left given the chance. If they don’t want to come back, that’s one thing and it might be fair to say “screw them”, but perhaps they realize they made a mistake and would like to come back. I don’t understand how inviting them back would make them “laugh in our face”.
C- BC has a decent football team and a decent basketball team.
D- They have a “market” that everyone seems so interested in having. Boston is a pretty damn good “market” also.
E- For the same reasons they don’t like the travel of the ACC, they would like the travel of the Big East. There’s still a Florida trip at least once a year, but that’s better than 2 a year.
Rebuttal
A – They should have thought of that before leaving the BE in the first place. I say too freaking bad. They need time to let that lesson sink in before we invite them back into our house for a beer. BTW, the University of MD is in College Park, not Annapolis. Just sayin.
B – Right. Not saying Syracuse is the most loyal member of the conference, but we didn’t make any secret about that either. BC backstabbed the entire conference long after they re-committed themselves the BE. The BE was already down with VT and Miami leaving. The move by BC was the final fork in the eye. If Syracuse immediately jumped ship to the Big 10, you might have an argument.
C – We don’t need their hoops team. Honestly, if we can get a school with a decent football team and not pick up a basketball team in the process we are better off. We don’t need any more good basketball teams in the BE, the schedule is rough enough already and the conference needs to drop a few dead weights, not add more talented teams.
D – So what? I would rather see BC flounder in the ACC than succeed in the Big East. That would only help Syracuse and the rest of the BE recruit the northeast even better.
E- Same as A. The prospects of playing a large number of NE teams in the BE wasn’t good enough for them 4 years ago, why would it be now?
Honestly, the BE needs to focus on getting good non-BCS schools and independents, not other BCS schools. The BE was successful once in doing it by picking up Cincy, USF and UL, they can do it again.
by bloodyyank44 on Dec 16, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Still
Everything you said was just your personal feeling that you don’t like BC because they left.
I’m a Syracuse fan, not a BC hater(which you clearly are). BC coming back helps Syracuse and the Big East.
Compared to everyone you mentioned(minus Notre Dame, explained below), BC is the most stable, best market, and closest to the rest of the Big East. If anything, East Carolina would be better to go to the ACC if we were to take BC.
C- We don’t need BC’s hoops team, but quite frankly, we don’t need Marquette’s, Depaul’s, USF’s, Seton Hall’s, St. John’s, Providence’s, or Notre Dame’s. However, we still have all them, and BC would be a better basketball team to have then all of them.
E- They do want to play northeast schools, otherwise we wouldn’t be playing them every year for the next decade.
Notre Dame isn’t coming to the Big East. I think we need to forget about them. The Big 10 is a football conference and ND is a football school. Once the pressure is on, that’s where they will go.
True
I am a BC hater, and a Syracuse fan. And I have no problem whatsoever being either and both at the same time. Just like I am a Georgetown hater and a UConn hater. And if they pulled the sam shit BC did, I wouldn’t even think of bringing them back for at least a decade.
Now that being said, I agree with you about the BC/ECU situation. Problem is, the ACC doesn’t need another team. BC fans/almuni might be pissed about travelling, but I doubt thats enough to bring them out of their ACC hole. Financially I’m sure they’re just fine, they’ve been doing just fine on the field, and the ACC overall is stable where the BE isn’t. There’s no reason for them to flip back to the BE.
C- Agree with you 100%. We don’t need nearly all the bball teams the BE is carrying. Except that USF brings a decent football team with them, and gets the BE back into Florida. So they’re fine. The BE should drop Seton Hall and Depaul like a bad habit. Like I said about ND, we don’t need their hoops team so give them the ultimatum to join BE football or get out. PC historically is a good hoops team and their membership to the BE means more to than any of the others, so they can stay, for now. Same with St. Johns – plus them playing in MSG gives ALL BE teams a lot of media exposure no matter how much they suck. They can stick around as long as they want.
E- I agree that BC probably does want to play NE schools. But like I said, maybe they should have thought about that before slapping the BE in the face when the joined the ACC, who is predominantly a southern league. That was a dumb and classless move on their part, and they should suffer for their stupidity and greed. SU would have been in the same boat if it were us instead of them, and we fans would rightfully have suffered for it just like those who wanted Coach P ousted had to suffer through the GRob years. This point is not a BC-hate thing, its strictly bad karma.
I’ll also agree that ND coming to BE is coming to the BE, but its just as likely as BC coming over, and there is much, much, MUCH more of an upside and zero downside. So I say forget BC, and if ND balks at the ultimatum, screw them too. Then we can focus on the teams who WANT to be in the BE, not the team that want to make the BE their bitch (ND) or will bend whichever way the wind blows (BC).
by bloodyyank44 on Dec 16, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Hey now
Orlando’s great. Wish I was in Central Fla. instead of South Fla.
(also, USF is in Central Florida, despite the name of their school)
Orlando is a swamp
but yes, you are right USF is "Central"’ florida as well. Either way, its nothing to brag about.
by bloodyyank44 on Dec 16, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
We can get ND if we let them keep their TV contract
It’s pretty simple, they’ve been dying every since the BC loss, and it’s because they won’t join a conference. They could lose 4 games and still make the BCS if they joined.
The Service acadamies also make sense. They’re still independent.
Who says we can’t raid Penn State. Just saying’. They’re the pretenders in the Big Eleven.
The 'Cuse is in tha house, oh my God oh my God.
So the consensus is that we...
take a team from a conference that is not the least bit troubled (Maryland, BC)… recruit the three teams that are steadfast in NOT wanting to be in a conference (ND, Army, Navy)… or add mediocre MAC/C-USA schools just to get a meaningless conference title game.
Again… how does this help anything? All we do is water-down football, add a conference title game, and screw basketball.
Count me out.
Of all the options, I think ‘Nova and G’Town becoming FBS schools has the best chance. If that happens… now you are just ONE team away from a championship game and can be selective.
Until then, kick out Notre Dame and add Memphis. Does not hurt football on the field… helps basketball.
Title game would not be meaningless
Yeah, we may wind up watering down football, but we need quantity, not necessarily quality, in order to retain our BCS bid and protect ourselve from being raided. You never hear about the ACC losing their bid, even though we know them to be an inferior football conference. Why? The shear number of teams that would affect. Point is no one in the rest of the college FB world is going to notice if the BE slips away.
Point is the MWC is actively pursuing expansion and putting up a convincing fight for an automatic BCS berth. The BE needs to act boldy and quickly to protect their status.
What harm does adding a couple decent (Navy, ECU) teams plus a couple mediocre teams do? None. Every conference has its perpetual bottom feeders. The B12 has Baylor and ISU. The B10 has Indiana and Illinois (who hasn’t always been bad), ACC has Duke and right now UVA and MD look pretty bad. Pac-10 has Washington/Wash. St. Hell, even the SEC has Vanderbilt. Right now the BE has SU, who as we know isn’t all bad and could at least hold their own with the middle of the B10. So adding a couple teams that might be worse than SU, really, would be a great thing.
I will agree that there’s no point in going after MD and BC. Thats a pointless effort, even if we could convince them they’re not going to be adding much and we’d have to kiss their asses the whole way. Screw that. Go for who we can realistically get and work on solidifying our status as a BCS league. As pointless as a championship game may be, it will draw the kind of media attention/hype the conference needs and further legitimize the conference.
by bloodyyank44 on Dec 16, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
I just don't understand..
where this quantity comes from. The nation always questions the strength of our teams, and then the season progresses and the Big East proves itself in the non conference and bowl games. It’s not the number of teams. If we let 1, 2, 3, or 4 more mediocre teams into the conference, it hurts the strength of our conference, and we have a bigger chance of losing our BCS bid. That could be tooo many bottom-feeders to survive.
doesn't matter
thats how ass-backwards college football is right now. People want to see the conference make strides towards becoming better, not staying put. Thats exactly what the MWC and WAC are doing. The BE will always seem weaker because they have less teams, therefore they appear to have less good teams as well, even if the opposite is true. Its perception that killes them. What is even more damaging is when teams like Rutgers and USF go out of their way to pad their OOC schedule with FCS and pansy FCS schools. Even though other BCS schools do the exact same thing, it alway looks like BE is doing it more frequently because each team has more OOC games to fill.
I’m not saying the BE is weak, its actually a really good conference. It’s just the perception of less = weaker that will always come back to bite them.
by bloodyyank44 on Dec 16, 2009 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Agree.
We have the opposite problem in basketball – even when 8 teams make the tourney we hear it’s at least partly just because the conference is so big. But having only 8 football teams is a HUGE disadvantage. The shitty ACC currently has 9 bowl tie-ins, despite the fact that they can’t fill them all. We have 6 – even if we do fill them all (assuming 3/4 of the BE goes at least 6-6), it still looks like we’re an inferior conference. We need to bulk up.
by firstmatewiggles on Dec 16, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
deja vu , big time
because:……. we, most of the big east, allready have a long, long term history with navy,md, and army. we …BC,SU,penn state..oops.. pitt, wvu.. et al, were all independants playing each other constantly til the formation of the big east. can’t beat it with a stick. annapolis and college park are close enough to drive to all the games, as well as of c ourse, west point. and talk about having not only say the catholic volk en mass, but also any current military or ex military, rooting for the big east in general? lots of publicity and media coverage, considering west point is not far from nyc, and MD and naval academy very close to the nations capitol.. non?
au contraire, mon ami
memphis.. have u ever been to memphis? thank god for home big screen,, dvd and cablevision! yeachhh.. football team just fired their coach, in true calipari fashion, i would assume basketball team is gonna undergo ncaa scrutiny. he is quite good at leaving just before the axe falls! and what kind of simpatico does memphis have with the east coast? tho they supposedly would like to join be. BC is not happy, they keep winning big most of the time, past few years in the acc, and cause they dont have a great fan base like say nebraska, etc, that follow them to bowl games, they keep getting shunted to really lame minor league bowl games. by now, they must have figured out just how much it costs every year to send their female golf and field hockey teams to free shoe u, georgia, south carolina,et al. andi would imagine, being a catholic private school in the acc, are looked upon as creatures from outer space. i mean, come on, folks from bah-ston" in say anderson, sc? whaaaaat?? maryland, who knows, but fridgeon is on the hot seat, and i know they were east independants before joing the acc. and surely, there are tons of big east fans in the dc/baltimore metro areas!
Marquette and Seton Hall need to start big time football programs
this way we tap the lucrative, football crazy Milwuakee market and…
okay, never mind.
the Seton Hall – Rutgers football rivalry would be the best!
by stumpycuse on Dec 16, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ppl would travel from around the world to watch that game.
I mean who does’t want to see a Pirate fight a Scarlet Knight on the open seas or across a moat at a castle!
Can't we just hit the RESET button...
and re-create the conferences to actually make geographic sense! Ugh.
Joepa tried this and it do not work out so well....
For what it is worth.
I think Syracuse would be a great add to the big ten. It would make financial sense for all innvolved. Also, the strong academic history and rich athletic tradtiion fits in with the the current members.
Added Bonus: the rivalry gets recemented on a permanent basis.
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
George S Patton
by psu in the w-b on Dec 16, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody wanted to take a hideously pro-Penn State revenue sharing model...
… though in retrospect, it would have been in everyone’s best interest to live with it and figure on straightening out the money issues later.
PSU is a MUCH better fit for the Big East than ND is.
I should say ND join the Little Eleven and PSU bolt for the Big East (PSU’s traditional rivalries are 1. Pitt, 2. WVU, 3. us; so their being in the Little Eleven is pointless). Then that makes 9 Big East teams. Nova should then grow a pair and bump itself up (UConn became a winner after 3 years in I-A and the rest of its life in I-AA; USF was in D-II a number of years ago you can count on your hands), especially so that those who root for ND based on Catholic identity alone (an inexcusable reason as it is simply because of BC) can have a third alternative.
Bottom line
WE NEED TO ACT – the Big East hierarchy needs to get off their asses and PROTECT THE GODDAMNED FOOTBALL TEAMS FOR ONCE. Basketball is invincible from outside threats, but our weakness is football, and we all know it. We need to strengthen football (and Sean, I could not agree more about jettisoning basketball dead weight – and again, why the hell are DePaul and Marquette in the Big East anyway?).
The Big East needs to be proactive, do something, go on the offensive for once, so that every time another conference starts making googly eyes at other teams, we would have nothing to worry about.
WE MUST STRIKE FIRST AND STRIKE HARD. F THE BIG 10.
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
Oh yeah
Not knocking the validity of their program at all….just saying that they do not belong, either historically or geographically, in the Big East. They serve no purpose at all.
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
by kotite4ever on Dec 16, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Big East
This should be the Big East…12 schools, All play Div 1A football and basketball.
1. Syracuse
2. Pittsburgh
3. Connecticut
4. West Virginia
5. Cincinnati
6. South Florida
7. Rutgers
8. Louisville
9. Villanova
10. Memphis
11. Central Florida
12. Notre Dame
I know it’s impossible and there are some marquee big east names missing but it’s time to move on or get out of the way…
OTTO is my MOTTO
We'd have to kick some of the BBall schools out in that case.
I say Depaul and Marquette definitely. We can’t kick St. John’s or Seton Hall out, or Providence since they were founding members, and we obviously don’t want to get rid of Georgetown.
WHY WHY WHY
If Notre Dame will not join the Big 10… which is more prestigious than the Big East…. perhaps a better brand of football than the Big East (perhaps)…academically superior to the Big East… in the same region as the Big East…. why would the every join the Big East for football?
It is just asinine.
The only way it happens is if much farther down the road… Notre Dame loses its TV contract and the Big 10 has already snatched up a 12th team… AND Notre Dame sees some benefit to the Big East (easiest road to BCS).
well
the consensus seems to be that we should give ND an ultimatum
every other ND sport is in the big east, so they might choose to align with us because of the fact that every other sport is a big east team.
i agree though, there’s no way ND abandons their TV contract, for the BE or Big Ten (eleven)
You aren't kicking anyone out.
USF & RUTGERS can be dumped for their crappy basketball.
by Butch Hobson's elbo chips on Dec 30, 2009 5:55 AM EST up reply actions
Villanova needs to play football for the big east. i think we can all agree on that, and we need to do what we can to help bring them up.
2ndly, i think we should go after UMASS. if we can bring them up and make them successful it will accomplish two things. 1, get us in the boston media market we want. and 2, we can rub it BC’s face that we dont need them.
that gives us
1.cuse
2.pitt
3.uconn
4.rutgers
5.cinci
6. louisville
7.west va
8.south florida
9. nova
10. umass
now we either become the eastern 10
but if you want to go to 12 we pick from memphis, ecu, ucf, navy, central michigan maybe?
we also should lend the big11 our expertise and suggest they take mizzou
by thekevo23 on Dec 17, 2009 12:09 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
your argument for UMASS
assumes that would actually bring in the Boston market.
It won’t
1) UMASS is in Amherst — nearly 2 hours from Boston
2) Boston is a professional sport’s town for everything, but they kinda get into BC if they’re doing well, and maybe some college hockey. They certainly NEVER get into UMASS, at least not in my lifetime (from Boston originally, live there now too)
Northeastern would have been nice
Of course, their program is not so solid right now. As in dead.
Dang.
Disagree
Boston (and its surrounding areas) cared infintely more about those Calipari-run UMass teams than they did any of the Penn/Curley BC basketball teams.
I actually think UMass would not be a horrible Big East ad (although Villanova makes infinite more sense, given that they’re already in for hoops and both currently play 1AA). UMass would also be a very nice ad (and recent rival for Cuse) to Big East lax.
by Bernie Fine is the Man on Dec 17, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
Nova could care less what you think
The School has few football fans, no stadium to play FBS, and no interest whatsoever to invest in your madness. Villanova has about as much chance to put a FBS team in the Big East as Holy Cross or Georgetown.
If you want more FBS teams in the Big East, then Syracuse can leave with the other 7 BE football schools and make their own conference.
by Butch Hobson's elbo chips on Dec 30, 2009 5:50 AM EST up reply actions
Big East bid is not in jeopardy
Why would one team leaving change that? We can replace any team with Memphis and not lose much ground.
If Pitt goes… still have Cincy, WVU, UConn, Rutgers. If Rutgers goes.. .still have Pitt, Cincy, WVU, and UConn. Not to mention USF and Louisville, who have been more interesting than Syracuse for the past 5 years.
The more likely scenario is that the BCS will ADD one more conference to the mix.
Any concern to the contrary is panic gone amok.
The only change that is needed is this… get rid of Notre Dame in basketball—leave it up to them what they want to do in other sports… keep them around for bowl tie-ins (worth it for better bowl games)… and add Memphis for all other sports.
Now you have 9 team football conference. Works out well for scheduling. Louisville, Cincy, and Memphis have some regional battling. Pitt, WVU, Syracuse not too far away either.
Memphis is almost in Arkansas
They’re almost as far from most of the conference as USF.
And worse at both football and basketball than us (despite GRob), not much better at basketball and way worse at football than Pitt, and while they’re somewhat better at basketball than Rutgers, they’re still a lot worse at football than Rutgers.
I don't know
Perhaps Memphis could just schedule the patsies Rutgers rolls in every year under its ruse of being a significant program. Name 3 major Rutgers football victories. Ever.
They still haven’t beaten WVU in…. what…. EVER? Yeah, they can beat Syracuse (or maybe not) and UConn (with a lucky return) or Louisville (until Strong gets his act in Florida in gear). But they are far from a big boy yet.
Syracuse plays their schedule this year and Syracuse goes to a bowl. End of story.
Heck… maybe Memphis goes to a bowl. And Memphis basketball is about 20 light years ahead of Rutgers.
Not convinced the Big 10 should expand
I think BE commissioner/ADs need to remind Big 10 folks that expanding would likely mean less revenue, i.e. getting a championship game that would likely knock out your second best team from the BCS would not be helpful. Plus there would be one more team to dilute the bowl revenue share.
Big 10 just need to schedule its rivalry games later in the year the way the PAC 10 does to get over the post thanksgiving gap. Outside of Notre Dame, I think Cuse would be only team worth grabbing for potential revenue benefits.
But the BE does need to shore up football – I think UMass for Depaul, let Depaul re-join the A-10 or CUSA. No way MD leaves the ACC. Navy would be my second choice but in basketball it could be brutal.
VILLANOVA WILL NOT BE FBS PROGRAM
1) No fans..nobody comes to their games..not NCAA playoffs..not anything..They can’t get the students to walk 100 feet into an empty stadium. With their Championship they are hoping to go from 7000 to maybe 10,000 a game…whoop-di-doo!!
2) NO FBS Stadium — the on-campus one seats less than 13,000 and no room to expand much nor will local Township ever let them add more parking to the Mainline.
The LINC is under Lease agreement to Temple for another 10 years so they can’t play there either.
3) Last time I looked, UCONN & USF are PUBLIC schools who have subsidized growth with Tax payer money. UCONN got $2.3 BILLION in State Grants since 1995 to rebuild most of the damn campus including a new football stadium.
Villanova is a small private Catholic school. And of course there are only 2 catholic FBS programs in America…Notre Dame & Boston College.
4) Currently the NCAA has a moritorium until 2012 preventing schools from even starting any ramp up from FCS to FBS.
You want Villanova in the Big East, then have Syracuse write them a check for $200 MILLION and they will see what they can do. Otherwise stop the foolish talk.
Go bother UCF, Memphis & East Carolina to join your break away Conference.
Based on huge obstacles and large expense to move up in a few years, Villanova will NEVER be FBS Football Program.
If Syracuse and the other 7 BE gridiron schools want to leave the BE, don’t let the door hit you on the way out. I am sure Xavier, Dayton, Siena will all be happy to join the remaining private schools.
Villanova, Georgetown, Providence, St John, Seton Hall, Marquette, Depaul and Notre Dame are all just fine with the current situation. The BE politics regarding FBS is not their problem.
by Butch Hobson's elbo chips on Dec 30, 2009 5:41 AM EST reply actions
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