Five Reasons Syracuse Will Go To The Big Ten
by Sean Keeley on Dec 15, 2009 3:58 PM EST
85 comments
Now that I've put your mind at ease, let me put the fear of God back into you and give you five good reasons the Orange are as good as gone from the Big East. Especially now that it's official that the Big Ten is on the prowl.
1. DOCTOR Gross
Someone joked that if it were up to DOC Gross, he would be petitioning Syracuse for membership in the Pac-10 if he could to be close to USC again. It's not far off. We know about Gross is always looking big picture, not only with Syracuse but with his own legacy. He wants his legacy to one day be The Architect of SU Athletics 2.0. Part of that means demystifying traditions that preceded him (#44) and creating new ones that he has a hand in. Moving the Orange to the Big Ten would accomplish this and then some. Considering it would most likely be a financially-successful move for SU, he'd be the guy responsible.
2. We Almost Jumped Once Already
If it were up to us, we'd be in the ACC right now. That is an undeniable fact. So for all the pro-Big East rah rah talk we've done since the Miami/VT/BC defection, we probably should keep our mouths shut (but we can't, obviously). And remember, this was even before Gross was here. Jake Crouthamel, who was one of the early adopters of the Big East, even thought it would have been a good idea to play elsewhere. Clearly, we're open to the idea.
3. Football Conferences Are Like Sharks, They Keep Moving Forward Or They Die
Yes, Big East football has improved over the last six seasons. The steady improvement of programs like Rutgers, UConn and USF has solidified the base and the success of Cincy, Pitt and West Virginia have kept the conference in the national limelight. But you and I know it's not enough. Our conference champ just went undefeated and got shut out of the national title game, and probably would have been passed over by a MWC team if the next domino fell. The conference is not on even ground with the rest of the BCS. And every year the Big East doesn't expand or explore it's options is another year the rest of the nation's conferences grow stronger around them. Some would argue the MWC is a better conference right now and even so they're trying to take steps to improve further. Not the Big East. It continues to twiddle it's thumbs and hope it all works out. There's only so long you can expect your partners to stick with you when you do that.
4. Mo Money, Less Problems
Nancy Cantor likes the chedda. The Big Ten has it's own network (a real network, not that thing the Big East pretends is a network). With another team it will have it's own championship game. It has better bowl affiliations. It has a much better reputation. Joining the Big Ten means more money for Syracuse, plain and simple. Sometimes, it's that easy.
5. We Kinda Do Make Sense
For all the reasons we don't make sense (small market, non-traditional rival, private university), we also make more sense than many of the other choices. Louisville, Rutgers and Cincinnati? Please, a handful of successful seasons does not a tradition make. Pitt? It'd nice but Penn State kinda already has Western PA covered. Missouri? Not so sure they have the academic reputation the Big Ten wants (commence firing statistics at me). Syracuse isn't as close to NYC as our AD likes to think but it does have a presence there, especially in basketball. And we do expand the reach of the conference in New York, NJ and New England in terms of alumni and awareness.
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If this happens
you’ll get two big press conferences in one week. First the announcement of the move to the Big 10. The next day you get the Jimmy B “I’m retiring” press conference.
by Otis Hill on Dec 15, 2009 4:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yep
If I’m subjected to watching 18 Big Ten basketball games a year, I may kill myself.
by DukePettyjohn on Dec 15, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Probably 19
I mean, who’s going to beat us before the Big Ten championship game?
(With 12 teams, if you’re a rational conference and not, say, the ACC, you play everyone in your division twice and everyone in the other division once for a sixteen-game regular season. Then the top 4 get a first-round bye in the conference tournament. Since it’s pretty safe to assume we get a top-4 seed, that’s three games to win it.)
utter, complete,total and absolute nonsense...
nummer ein/une/uno:if anything, the big 11 is probably at this point, a even more laugable football conference then say the acc. also, at this point, the only quote dominant" team, the buckeyes, are probably only second, tressel.. their coach, to say big game bob" the nitwit who has led the wanna be pro set /USC" offense to outstanding and pathetic loses in almost every big play off and game vs ah..Kansas state, florida, LSU, naturally USC, and the truly embarrasing loss to boise state. in this proud tradition, like just about every other big 11 heartland of usa team, who plays the pac 10 teams, osu constantly loses to usc, lsu, florida, u name in the bowls. and who is stupid enough to spend all the bucks to send the non money maker male and female sports from syracuse to say iowa, minnesota? every other year? do we, cept for north ohio, and naturally donnie macnabb/chicago land.. ever even recruit in places like iowa, wisconsin, et al? does syracuse even have a hockey team, like michigan, michgan state, minnesota, wisconsin? big time hockey team? i think not.. and cept for some pow wow celabrations, i doubt the mid west bumpkins have got the vaguest idea what lacrosse even is? and just who is the best and most highly ranked team in the state of ohio, muchless the whole midwest right now? oops.. CINCI!!! not ohio state or michigan.. lets have freaking reality check here.. folks can actually drive to say big east games from syracuse over in ct, down in joisey".. even say morgantown. i say: redouble efferts to enlist navy, or penn state to big east, maryland would be great, we recruit for all 3 sports down there constantly anyways. and sadly enough, at this point, temple is actually a stronger football program the n su. thanks , grobaroo!!
true
they really don’t have any idea what lacrosse is. I spent my childhood years in Michigan, and when we moved East I distinctly remember my classmates talking about how they play something that sounded to me at the time like “cross” and having absolutely no clue what they were talking about.
Defending the Cassel since 2009
You make a good point, however
you’re lack of punctuation made that very difficult to read/understand
Couple of notes from BigTen fan
1) The BigTen is probably just above the ACC, but even if they are laughable, they’ve got the big money contracts with the networks and a very solid revenue sharing plan
2) OSU does lose many bowls, but in many cases, they weren’t anywhere close to favored. Sending two teams to BCS bowls the last few years has really hurt the B10 bowl record because we’re playing higher seeds. QED, instead of our second best team playing the 2nd SEC team, we generally have our third place team. We definitely haven’t been as deep as the SEC, who we play too many bowls with, and it shows. You end up having meh Northwestern teams also playing very good Missouri teams down the line.
3) You already send many of your non-revenue sports to South Florida, You had been sending them to VT and Miami before that. The midwest isn’t much further.
4) The BigTen doesn’t currently have a hockey conference. They are split between the CCHA and WCHA, but they don’t have enough teams to create a BigTen conference until one or two more schools would bump their club teams to NCAA level (such as Penn State).
5) Lacrosse is growing, but it’s still in its infancy. Michigan is on pace to bump their Club Lacrosse team up to varsity in the next 3-5 years. They’ve won a couple national championships in a row at the club level. There has been rumor of lacrosse (along with the aforementioned hockey) as one of the next BigTen projects.
by formerlyanonymous on Dec 16, 2009 3:02 AM EST up reply actions
rose bowl disgraces
i might add: i am a 60 year old , and almost since i can remember, even back to when oregon state was playing with these wierd striped uniforms, the big ten usually loses to back then pac 8,now pac 10 teams. and its great to send our teams to south florida. because: even in basketball, ,much less football, its a great recruiting ground. and its for say football, only once every 2 years. which means: florida recruits get to go back home to play in front of family and friends. increased exposure to all the florida recruits, actually playing down there apart from bowl games. and lets not forget say at least 4 coaches at miami dolphins who happily chose to coach at the dolphins. as well.. hockey is very, very big in those states,i lived in mn. and dont think for a second, that they dont actually pre empt any and all tv to show HIGH SCHOOL HOCKEY PLAY OFFS! in minnesota, from what i know, l ike some of the michigan schools, and wisconsin, not only do some of the best athletes play hockey instead of other sports, its probably a decent money maker at wisconsin, mn, even the smaller state schools in michigan, wisconsin, mn! i dont agree with bud polquin, about being a patsey, during pasqalbongnas era, we actually did play michigan , and ohio state and beat them. in two games , i remember, rather easily in fact. however, there simply is no natural rivalry stuff there at all, as joe pa and penn state found out.along with the fact, that even playing teams like northwestern, or indiana in football, was not a total gimme" , unlike as a independant and playing programs like akron, or temple say half the season schedule. correctamundo?
syracuse /miami coaches
which is what i meant to say. deleone, pasqualbongna, and the other 2, from syracuse. in fact, seems like the majority of the dolphins coaching tree is from .. CT!
Lacrosse??
Did lacrosse actually come up in a sports discussion? There are about 8 people (all in New England) who have ever played lacrosse.
You did realize you're posting on a Syracuse blog, right?
I mean, I’m not an upstate NY native (I just passed through long enough to end up an Orange fan), and never really loved lacrosse, but I went to high school with a lot of people quite serious about the game.
I mean, you’re correct that it’s of absolutely no relevance in deciding whether or not we should go to the Big Ten (and the answer is that yes, we should try to get an invite unless something’s really in the works to clean up the mess that is the current Big East that doesn’t involve wishful thinking, and yes, we would immediately accept an invite), but the idea that no one cares about lax? At Syracuse?
I know people in the northeast
are into lacrosse. My point is that us ‘midwestern bumpkins’ couldn’t care less about lacrosse. If lacrosse is that important to SU, then there is no way they should join the Big Ten. As a huge Big Ten basketball fan, I’d love to have the Orange in our conference.
I’m just not sure I even want the Big Ten to expand. I definitely know that I don’t want Rutgers.
Yea, lacrosse matters at Syracuse.
Not as much as basketball or football, but it’s the third sport. And since we have won 11 championships in it, it’s the one sport we can really brag about comfortably. And believe it or not, lacrosse is growing in the Mid-West, though you may not know it. One of the best players of the recent years at SU was from Illinois (Steven Brooks). ND and OSU both field pretty solid varsity teams (not to mention the Northwestern women’s team), so it’s definitely not non-existent out there.
All that said, our lax team would be fine. We would just go back to being independent, play Hopkins, Princeton, Virginia, et al as always and then play some Big Ten teams instead of the Big East ones. I’m concerned with our football team ever gaining a foothold and our basketball team going to a lesser conference and possibly losing recruits for it.
"Our conference champ just went undefeated and got shut out of the national title game, and probably would have been passed over by a MWC team if the next domino fell."
False. Cincy was #3 in the BCS and would have played if Texas lost.
We really don't know
Cinci was #3 by a very, very slim margin in the final BCS rankings (a clear #2 in the computers, though); it’s possible Brian Kelly voting his own team #1 made the difference. It’s not at all clear how voters who were deciding between Cinci and TCU for the title game would vote; there was enough margin that TCU or even the dreaded ’Bama-Florida rematch could have been possible.
OU: BIG GAME BOB"
forgot to preface the boomer sooner genius in above column. big game bob, as he is unaffectly known to many of the sooner faithful by now. this is a team, who recruited like 2 high school a ll american halfbacks , currently on team. and after playing he corn-shuck “//nebraska volk”.. ou offense, the running game was held to like -16 yards, in a magnificent 10-3 beatdown, by a team that lost the game before to iowa state cyclones. and if the nebraska team had any kind of offense coaching and talent at all, cinci right now would be playing for the championship vs bama.so there u have it.. the wonders of sending all your fans plus team to ah, minnesota, iowa, wisconsin.. scenic idlilic heartland of america.. endless vistas of soybean fields.. corn stalks.. polka music , and brats!
cinci"
thank you! and considering how lame freaking bama looked last year vs utah, cept for that lousy cincy defense, damned good chance they could beat bama, too! and anybody would have to be plumb stupido, to bet money on bama vs say boise state or tcu.. boise state got a great qb, and loves to play trick football, ask boomer sooners. and tcu always has had a great defense, offense now ranked number 4. and further more, its hilarius, that the dominant teams by far , in the acc, have been ah.. big east teams? as in BC,VT, and miami??
This is a basketball school
I go to what used to pass for a football school in the Big Ten (Michigan) and I’d take Big East basketball over Big Ten football any day. The Big Ten sucks
dont forget the lutefish!
and the whole stupid nonplayoff system within the football ranks of the big 11" is hard to believe.tho to be honest, its not just ND. i have no comprehension, why they have not tryed to steal say cinci or louisville for their big 11..
SERIOUS QUESTION!!
Could SU join the Big 10 only for football?
Think about it, Notre Dame plays in the Big East basketball conference, but has a separate deal for football… I am not saying SU can call the shots like Notre Dame does in football, BUT it’s possible SU could stay in the Big East for every sport except football… AM I RIGHT OR WRONG?
—
by Josh in Syracuse on Dec 15, 2009 5:19 PM EST reply actions
And...
Big 10 football would be really fun… better than Big East.
Except that Cuse would loose a lot more..
by Josh in Syracuse on Dec 15, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe would lose more in the long run...
… but right now we’re winning only one conference game a year right now; we can hardly lose more. I mean, if the Big Ten goes with non-wacky divisions, and everyone plays at about average excluding any ‘dark times’ in their recent history (the early 2000s at Penn State, the last few years at Michigan, the GRob era here) you figure we lose to Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State. Michigan State is a toss-up, and we beat Purdue/Indiana. Then you figure that if we avoid Wisconsin and Iowa we can probably sweep the West division games. So 4-4 or 5-3; maybe 3-5 while we’re still in recovery mode (though we might be able to snatch a few games against Michigan while they’re in recovery mode). And we don’t need to play a suicidal non-conference schedule in the Big Ten, so we can just play three MAC / Sun Belt / FCS teams and one decent opponent out of conference for three or four more wins.
Probably not.
Notre Dame is special like that, doubt we could swing it. One of the draws of Syracuse would be the basketball team. And I would hate to play Big Ten football right now. We would have too much trouble getting back on top whereas in the Big East it could happen in a few years.
True - I would never want to see SU in another basketball conference
And, then… the problem is that the Big East in Basketball is already too big… Can’t really invite another school for its football and use Big East basketball membership in the bargain. Maryland would be a nice addition to the Big East (FB and Lax), but not another BB team..
by Josh in Syracuse on Dec 15, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Easy fix is to dump Depaul.
They aren’t that good and have never contributed to the Big East. A school like Maryland would contribute in all three sports however. Or get Villanova in here for FB already.
Agreed
I wonder what those contracts look like… what would it take to dump Depaul?
by Josh in Syracuse on Dec 15, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of people have said bring in 'Nova
and it makes perfect sense on every level, seems to be the perfect solution… except, it seems, that Villanova doesn’t want to move up to FBS football. I’ve heard that lots of people have talked about the Wildcats moving up to FBS & joining the Big East for football but the university really doesn’t want to.
No way
would either conference allow that
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
Under the Doc Gross heading
You can pretty much count on the good Doctor simply doing the most dickish thing possible. Eliminate 44? Done. Turn Ernie Davis into a commercial for Nike? Done. Move to the Big Ten? Piece of cake. Change the team name to the Trojans? Just you wait. Punch a 7 year old girl sucking a lollipop? On the calendar for this afternoon. Spell narciscist in all caps bold italic? Every chance he gets. If it makes a child cry or makes America less safe against the terrorists, Dr. Gross is all over it. Can we find a way to can him while still having successful football, hoops & lax teams?
But answer my question...
Couldn’t SU play only football in the Big 10 and every other sport in the Big East?
AND! What are you people talking about elimination 44? Davis has more accolades under the Gross than anyone else (Dorm, Statute, Field!!)?? What do you mean?
by Josh in Syracuse on Dec 15, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
He means the fact that the #44, which used to be a nifty little recruiting tool for highly rated RBs, was retired by the University once DOCTOR Gross got there.
Wow, I did not know that...
So, SU used to give #44 to promising RBs? That probably worked…
Earnie has soooo many special things at SU! I think adding the field was just too much…
by Josh in Syracuse on Dec 15, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Also, regarding Ernie Davis...
do you remember the Ernie Davis statue? How it had Nike symbols on the jersey and the shoes? It made the national news as a huge laugher. There’s a difference between really honoring someone and using their memory as a cheap marketing gimmick. Call me cynical but it seems to me just about everything Gross has done related to Ernie has been marketing related.
sports radio
here in Chicago keeps mentioning the Big Ten expansion with specifically “Rutgers, Syracuse, and Pitt”…and. I. don’t. like. it.
we would get thrashed in football ( which we currently already do) and we would dominate in basketball….. and we could get out of the Big East lacrosse league and become an independent against and play who ever we wanted
I think we would recruit well in football if we were in the Big 10
I think we’d right away be above Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois, and maybe even Michigan State in attractiveness to a potential recruit. With our history, notable alumni that are currently and formerly in the NFL, and the Dome, adding the allure of playing in the Big 10 would definitely be a great thing for the football program.
That does NOT, however, mean I support the move. It would just be so bad for basketball that I can hardly stomach it. And even Big 10 football isn’t that exciting. It just looks great on paper, especially to a recruit. Truth is, we’d always be playing second fiddle to Ohio State and Michigan, just like the rest of that conference is. At least in the Big East we can realistically be Top Dog.
Defending the Cassel since 2009
Read ncCuse's comment below.
We would slowly get worse in basketball as much of our talent comes from the Mid-Atlantic. They would not be nearly as attracted knowing that many of their games would be played in the Mid-West. We would definitely dominate early on, but it’s hard to say the stranglehold would last. Not to mention we lose out on the rivalries we have going, which are a huge reason our team is so exciting every year. Plus, I really can’t fathom defending Big Ten basketball.
My Grandparents were Mountaineers.
If this happens, even as an SU alum, so will I.
The 'Cuse is in tha house, oh my God oh my God.
We'd lose HOOPS recruits
It would hurt our basketball program.
Syracuse basketball - Rautins, Jones, and Triche aside don’t historically sign a lot of upstate talent. We don’t rely on in state players the way a lot of Big 10 programs do (look at Michigan St. roster). We recruit “Big East kids” from D.C. north into the tri-state area. We bolt to the Big Ten and we lose these kids, while schools like UCON and Pitt and Nova and the rest say thank you very much.
The recruits I speak of play in the Big East’s backyard, they play for schools and AAU programs tied into Big East programs, and they want to play with ( or against) their friends and fellow teammates in arenas that their friends and family can drive to.
Geography matters.
Look at Maryland. Maryland is an ACC school right in the middle of Big East country. Just look every year at the players in the D.C. – Baltimore area that put Maryland on their short list along with Big East schools, and how Maryland always seems to lose out in the end. Rudy Gay, Carmelo, C.J. Fair … just to name three. These kids don’t want to go on the road to NC State and Georgia Tech or Florida St. They also wouldn’t be jazzed about heading out to the midwest.
Upstate Recruits
I am still unsure if the Big 11 move is the right thing but we need to put the basketball recruiting thing in perspective.
SU does get upstate players:
J Flynn
Paul Harris
Damone Brown
John Wallace
Three of our most legendary players came from Big 11 country:
Coleman- Detroit
Owens- Carlisle, PA
GMAC- Scranton
Dont forget Marius Janulis
and Craig Forth. And Rautins & Triche on the current team, of course.
Also, Scranton isn’t far from Syracuse, as every basketball announcer for 4 straight years felt compelled to point out.
McNabb played ball too
Worth mentioning as he is from Chi.
Lesser of two evils..
Moving to the Big 10 would definitely suck for basketball, and right now, I am more than fine with the Big East in football as a fan. But I understand that with the money involved, the Big Ten is a huge plus on the football side. But as a fan, I am very in favor of sticking with the Big East.
However, my fear is that if the Big 10 took a school like Pittsburgh or even West Virginia, as remote a chance as that may be, how much can the Big East weather as a football conference. I get queasy thinking about another non-traditional school like Memphis or, gasp, ECU, taking the place of another one of the few tradition-rich schools we have. An 8 team conference with USF, Cincy, Louisville, and ECU? Just seems much more second-rate.
So I would hate for SU to move to the Big Ten, but would they have the choice? Would staying relegate them to a second rate conference once all the dominoes fall?
good point
This is a huge point. If Pitt or Rutgers leaves the revenue piece of the pie gets a little smaller. The BCS affiliation will be looked at and a lot of other factors make it very difficult for the Big East. It’s almost like starting over. If it comes down to it you’re going to see a lot of angry alumni and fans bemoaning SU to the Big 10. If Syracuse is targeted I think they almost have to go.
I hope not.
Despite Cincy's resurgence..
I think they are the easy fix. Let them go to the Big Ten, they weren’t anything great in football before Kelly, and we don’t need their program in basketball. There was no history with the Big East anyways. Replace them with Memphis, and its almost a wash.
Cincy is not at the academic level the Big 10 wants.
You have to remember that conferences are about academic partnerships as well as athletic. SU, Rutgers, and Mizzou fit the bill academically. Cincy is basically a tier-III commuter school. And the fact that they just lost Kelly gives the Big 10 every more reason to not take them.
Defending the Cassel since 2009
Yeah, thats what I thought to. But they are getting alot of mentions on the ESPN blogs along with Rutgers, SU, and Missouri.
This is because
The evil 4 letter network covers sports, not schools
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
AAU membership
The long standing bylaw on BigTen expansion requires the school to be in the AAU. The conference wants a school that is very research oriented with great grad programs. The CIC, the academic group of BigTen schools (and UChicago, as a former athletic member but still current academic member) can veto any proposed school entering its athletic conference.
by formerlyanonymous on Dec 16, 2009 3:04 AM EST up reply actions
Aside from the most important reason:
Ohio State would be pissed off by the very thought of another Ohio school joining.
"Andrew Jones....SEND IT IN, BIG FELLA!" - Bill Raftery, 4/2/09
by ReadingRambler on Dec 16, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Or everyone could just say "No."
The only school I could see having everything to gain and nothing to lose is Rutgers. They suck at everything. If they’re in they just get more revenue, and still get beaten down every week. Would it be a huge loss to lose them and replace them with Eastern Carolina?
I don’t think so… Skip Holtz has built a damn good mid-major football program there. They’d be competitive in the Big East. And in basketball, they’d just fill Rutgers’ shoes as someone who sucks and nobody cares about.
But honestly, I think the Big 10 would become a laughing stock if they took Rutgers.
Defending the Cassel since 2009
The Obvious Solution is to Get Rid of Rutgers
They suck at basketball. They will return to sucking at football. Their fan base is fairly weak. And no one likes them. Give them to the Big Ten.
I fear this
If Rutgers is part of the Big 10, that may give them a boost in recruiting. We have BC in the NE with the ACC connection… we would have Rutgers in NJ working that angle.
Unless they pull the BE's BCS birth,
there’s NO justifiable reason.
The 'Cuse is in tha house, oh my God oh my God.
I feel this a no issue. Syracuse is one the powerhouses in the Big East in terms of results (on the field/court/track/etc), revenue, marketing, tradition, and fan base. Fans, alumni, and students would be outraged!!! (No1 here thinks it’s a good idea..lol)
More importantly, I think this is a wake up call for the Big East to improve their football roster. Villanova should move up. It is stupid for them to be a D1AA team. In fact, they could be the best this year (they are in the championship game). They have a good market in Philly.
Also, would somebody please talk to Notre Dame and NBC. I know they have a $100,000,000,000(no exaggeration haha) contract with them but picture this:
Comcast is buying out NBC/Universal. Comcast Sports have major regional coverage in Southeast, Chicago, New England, New York, Washington DC, and Philadelphia. They know how to deal with College Conferences (i.e. SEC, ACC, CUSA, Mountain West). Big East Games on NBC and their sister networks with 10 teams (Notre Dame and Nova added). 9 games played in Conference with 3-4 Non-conference games.
You see what I;m trying to say here??? People need to wake up and smell the green that can be created by this…
by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 15, 2009 6:45 PM EST reply actions
It's pretty clear
that the only team they can take without completely fucking up the entire landscape of the sport… is Notre Dame.
Please say yes???
Defending the Cassel since 2009
Totally agree.
Especially when it comes to the BE. Get their asses out and bring in a football school. Football teams get their 8th conference game, b’ball teams keep the same scehedule.
by firstmatewiggles on Dec 15, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Good Idea
Going to the Big Ten will be a great move for both basketball and football. Since the Big East has expanded what success has the basketball program seen? Two trips to the NIT, with our best finish being last year’s sweet 16. As for recruiting, the Midwest has some of the top players every year from Illinois, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio.The prospect of playing in front of the largest crowds in the country while still playing in front of their friends and families in their home states will continue to bring in top talent. While the Big Ten has a different style of basketball, the tradition, talent and officiating is very similar to the Big East. The move for football is a no brainer as the Big East just doesn’t have the facilities or coaches to compare to the Big Ten. If the offer comes our way it would be a mistake to turn it down.
Big 10 Basketball
Grind it out and slow the game down and play a ton of defense. Doesn’t sound fun to me. We’d be back to the late 90’s teams, scoring 60 points per game and giving up 55. Yuck.
Michigan St. is the only game that I’d want to see if we switched to Big 10 basketball. All the other programs don’t interest me one bit. Contrast that with the Big East where Georgetown, UConn, Louisville, and Nova all intrigue me from year to year. Schools like Providence (for some reason I always get nervous when we play them) and St. John’s at least have the historical significance.
Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won 10 f-- games, not 10
by PoetryInMoten on Dec 15, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
It's ugly
but one thing that slow basketball does is gets your team ready for tournament games where every possession has extra significance.\
That said, as an MSU fan I wish the style of play wasn’t so slow. Wisconsin can burn to the ground.
Light a man a fire, he'll stay warm for a day.
Light a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
then why is it that come tourney time
that the Big 10/11 teams suddenly can score points in the games. the thought is that the schools will run the slow farm boys out of the gym but they keep up. When ESPN did the top all time programs for college basketball IIRC the Big 10 had 6 teams in the top 25. no other conference had that many.
by Delaware Boiler on Dec 16, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
and that list was complete BS, full of teams that haven’t been good consistently good for 20 years. I don’t even remember one BE school being on that list. All I know is my eyes see a huge difference in quality of play between the BE and B10
quality of play
if you look at national championship wins in the past 20 years
The Big East has 3. Two from UCONN 1999 and 2004 and Syracuse in 20003.
The Big Ten has 1. From MSU in 2000.
not really a difference in my mind. 3 vs 1.
The SEC has 5.
The ACC has 7.
The PAC10 has 2.
The Big12 has 1.
UNLV has 1.
Doesnt seem like the quality is that different to me
by Delaware Boiler on Dec 16, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree with the statement
that the tradition and talent of Big Ten bball has ever been on par with the Big East. Can you give me a season where three Big Ten teams made the Final Four? Granted they always have two, three, sometimes four teams with good skill and coaching. But if you took the top 8 Big East teams and the top 8 Big Ten teams and put them in a conference, I see two, maybe three Big Ten teams consistently being in the top ten of that mythical conference. And by different style, I assume you mean numbing boredom. And I’ll also take East Coast recruiting over MidWest recruiting any day.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Dec 15, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone here
who is comfortable giving up SU vs G’town should return their diploma.
fin.
by Sadler1 on Dec 15, 2009 8:07 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
But
what if your diploma isn’t from Syracuse?
Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won 10 f-- games, not 10
by PoetryInMoten on Dec 15, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
I think you just dated yourself
Uconn is the new Gtown.
I'll just say it...
It comes down to 2-4 basketball games/year that I want, no, NEED to see that would likely be all but lost in a move to the Big10 – if joining the Big Ten means that the basketball team doesn’t get to play Georgetown and UConn at least once each – ideally 2+ times – a year, then I have ZERO interest in the Cuse joining the Big Ten. Also, no BE = no BE Tournament at MSG. Joining the Big10 may be great for football…but it would ruin a lot of great basketball traditions. And I’ll be honest, I love SU football but definitely not as much as SU basketball. Even when Cuse had a good football team. That’s likely due in large part to enjoying the sport more in general, but I digress.
Who would we hate in the Big 10? I just hate Georgetown and UConn so much right now that I don’t want it to end. Developing rivalries takes time…and frankly, Big10 basketball sucks a lot. Not just from a talent perspective but from an excitement perspective. It’s just awful. The only Big10 basketball rivalry that could be fun (if not contrived) is with Indiana (a la 1987).
I hate the fact that the Big Ten continually gets more teams in the tourney than they should
although betting against them early brings more wins than losses.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Dec 15, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed from the basketball side..
but personally, I enjoy SU football slightly more than basketball, even though I’ve only been a fan since my freshman year in ‘01-’02 with only that first season being a true success.
And with the recent relative success in the BE football conference, in which I would easily compare the top teams with those in the Big 10, I just don’t think the competition increases enough to warrant a conference change. Of course, that’s from watching the games. The national perspective always will lag behind the Big 10, and with that better bowl games, etc. But I think with the current make up of the conference, it is making major strides forward. And although we don’t have a ‘true’ rival at this time, I sure as hell would miss playing historic rivals in Pitt and WVU.
So I’d say from my perspective as a fan, the football side is a wash, the basketball side would be a drastic drop. SU, or any of the other eastern schools for that matter, have no business changing conferences.
Damn, money always destroys everything good.
Big East expansion
Sean’s best point here is that the Big East just sits around while geographically close conferences boldly announce plans to expand – and we don’t do jack shit in response. We didn’t raid C-USA until after the ACC had raped us, but rather than continue to understand that it’s “kill or be killed” in BCS football, we do nothing. I’m sick and tired of the focus of our goddamned conference being basketball only.
Why the FUCK did we add DePaul and Marquette to the Big East? It’s bad enough we have all of these other schools that don’t play FBS football (Providence, St. John’s, Villanova, Georgetown, et al), but that’s fine – they’re traditional Big East schools. I say boot the oddball midwestern teams, add two teams that play FBS football (or more) and be done with it.
I know I’ve said it a million times on here, but here’s what I would LOVE to see happen. A Big East lineup that looks like this:
Syracuse
Pitt
WVU
Rutgers
Louisville
USF
Cincy
UConn
*Navy
*Army
*Villanova (if they’d be willing to move up, but it doesn’t seem likely)
*Boston College
Boston College never should have left – they pledged their allegiance to the Big East AFTER we had closed ranks and agreed to stick together (once Miami and VT had already left, and Cuse was no longer in the running). With that being said, they do NOT belong in the ACC, either in terms of culture or geography. They should be a linchpin in any real Northeastern football league, and the fact that they’re not is a shame.
If BC came back to the fold, and we added those other three teams, I think we’d have a geographically sensible league full of tradition and academic integrity. Plus, the Army-Navy game would become a Big East Conference game (not a big deal, but kind of neat).
In a nutshell, that’s what I’d like to see happen. I REALLY hope we don’t join the Big 10…but I understand that money talks. It would serve the Big East right, in a way, to lose a basketball/lacrosse program like Syracuse, because it would teach them a lesson that you can only screw the football schools for so long before it bites you in the ass.
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
Agreed
I think Syracuse needs to have a comeback for the Big East to survive much longer. This conference NEEDS the “rocks of tradition,” Syracuse, Pitt and West Virginia, to be competitive.
I believe Cincinnati and USF are, unfortunately, on a down-swing… Cincy just lost Kelly and Miami seems to be on the rise, and if FSU can also get its shit together then USF is going to have a harder time getting recruits. They have helped keep us relevant in the national discussion but in all likelihood, only for a short time.
The more I look at the situation, the more I get the sinking feeling that Big East football is dying, and without football, there’s no Big East, despite what we want to think. Football is the be-all-end-all. Without Miami, V-Tech, and BC, we look too much like a mid-major pedestrian conference. Pitt, SU, and WVU are the only things keeping it afloat, but how long can that last? Even your solution, kotite, seems temporary. Army and Navy will never be competitive nationally, Nova doesn’t seem to want to move up, and I don’t see how we can lure BC back.
I think what we lost in V-Tech, BC, and Miami, more than the football tradition, was academics as well. We replaced them with a bunch of Tier-3 schools, collectively bringing down our conference’s academic reputation. Army and Navy might be okay from an athletics perspective, but how much would we gain in that arena by bringing in military academies? I don’t know a lot about how that whole system works, but still, I feels it’s worth bringing up.
If the Big 10 comes calling, we might have no choice but to say yes… It would destroy the Big East, but that seems inevitable anyway…
Maybe I’m just being pessimistic but I just can’t shake that nagging feeling, the more that I look at the Big East’s situation, especially from a football standpoint, that the future of our conference is not the brightest…
Defending the Cassel since 2009
I agree Bwelch
I fear that it is dying also – and it bothers me a lot. Football is the linchpin of any real conference, and the Big East is not doing enough to stay relevant on that front. I think Army/Navy would help with academics (they have a pretty sterling reputation on that front), and Navy is a consistent bowl team. Villanova has the resources to be good, but you’re right, BC is a bit of a stretch. They would never swallow their pride and admit that the ACC was a mistake for them.
If the Big 10 comes calling, we may have no choice.
"(BARF)" - Donovan McNabb, during his game winning drive against Virginia Tech in 1998
by kotite4ever on Dec 16, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
GRob
It would be interesting to play Michigan in football if Groobers was still DC. That’s about it. I think someone else mentioned the newly formed BE lacrosse conference- that doesn’t happen without SU and it seems unlikely that they would just bolt so soon after. My opinion (and hope!) is that they say “thanks but no thanks”.
Go Orange.
Didn’t the team and more specifically the coach get dragged into the Big East Lax league kicking and screaming? I thought the league was more of a Doc Gross/Big East Commissioner project.
I thought the team liked being independent because they could schedule the likes of Hopkins, UVA, Princeton, Army, Hobart, Cornell, UMass, Brown, Georgetown, LeMoyne and Maryland at will. If the move to the Big Ten happens, they could essentially go back to that open scheduling format as opposed to having to play new teams in the Big East.
It seems to me that Desko finally saw a benefit in a conference.
For a long time we were basically the only Big East school with any strength, but that has been slowly changing. The Big East schedule won’t be a complete cake walk (as it would have been even a few years ago) and there is enough room that we can still play our rivals and the big boys. If you look at our schedule this year, it actually looks really daunting. Plus we now will get an automatic entry into the tourney for winning our conference (even if our record is weak). I think that automatic bid is what really drew Desko in the end because teams across the country are getting better, so getting upset here and there is more likely than ever even if we are getting ready to threepeat.
However, you are right, going to the Big Ten wouldn’t really hurt us since we would just revert to our independent format that has worked thus far.
Expect SU to be among three new members of the Big Ten...
…the other will be Rutgers and Maryland. All Tier I academic institutions, all with good big-time athletic programs. Bringing all three in to complement Penn State would give the Big Ten a solid footprint along the eastern seaboard, important for the conference-owned network. SU, RU, UMd and PSU regularly compete against each other in most sports, so there wouldn’t be a cultural isolation. The Big Ten already dwarfs other conferences in money; add those three to the mix and conference TV rights fees would skyrocket. (And don’t forget the Big Ten academic consortium, as important for research as its athletic program is to sports departments.) Expanding to 14 may seem unusual, but adding all three, and the power of the New York to Washington corridor, makes it more than equal the sum of its parts.
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