Five Reasons Syracuse Won't Go To The Big Ten
by Sean Keeley on Dec 15, 2009 1:05 PM EST
41 comments
Face it, folks. Until the Big Ten (11) finally choose a twelfth team, this discussion will just keep rearing it's ugly head. So, it's probably best that we just address the issue head on and hope that some schlub from the Big 12 or WAC ends up becoming No. 12 and not a Big East team. Especially Syracuse.
That said, let me give you five reasons not to be overly concerned with the Big Ten overtures despite the fact that SU continues to show up on all of the
1. We're Not As Attractive As We Like To Think (In This Case)
Look at the list of teams that are generally accepted as the "favorites" for Big Ten addition. Rutgers, Louisville, Pitt, Missouri, Cincinnati & Syracuse. In the same order, here's the market size that correlates to each school. #1 (NY), #49 (L'ville), #23 (Pittsburgh), #21 (St. Louis), #33 (Cincinnati) and #83 (Syracuse). If a major goal of the expansion is to increase the reach of the Big Ten Conference into large markets which in turn increases the reach of their TV network, Syracuse doesn't do a whole lot for them. Sorry, DOC Gross, Rutgers provides better in-roads to NYC while Mizzou and Cincy provide better access to major Midwestern cities.
2. Tradition Matters For The Big Ten
Not that Syracuse doesn't have tradition. We're up to your eyeballs in tradition. Just not the kind their looking for. Yeah we have a classic rivalry with Penn State, but that's about it in terms of historical perspective and Big Ten teams. Teams like Cincy and Pitt have more of a geographical resonance when it comes to budding and building rivalries with the programs already there. Missouri already has the hate thing down pat with Illinois. Only Rutgers and Louisville look worse than SU in this department.
3. Forget Football For A Second And Tell Me If This Makes Sense
Because we all know this is 100% about football, right? It doesn't take into account any other sport. If it does, that's a whole new ballgame, or ballgames. Syracuse basketball is a Big East institution, arguably the premiere program over the course of the conference's history. Syracuse lacrosse is the gem of the newly-formed Big East lacrosse conference. Many other SU programs are key components of the conference, such as field hockey, women's lacrosse, soccer, volleyball, etc. This move would be a sacrifice for every other sport at the expense of football. Are we willing to redefine every other sport, major or otherwise, in order to "help" the football program?
4. Go West, Young Men
Check out the logistical nightmare created if the Big Ten expands East. If a Syracuse is brought in and the conference is split into two divisions, one traditional Big Ten rivalry will be ripped apart. Sure they could probably find a way to keep things going between the two teams but this falls into the "sacrificing tradition" pool, something the Big Ten seems extremely unwilling to do. This is also where Missouri comes in and makes tons more sense...they fit in perfectly with the Western Division, which contains Illinois and needs a sixth team.
5. Our Hypocritic Oath
When Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech left the Big East to join the ACC, Syracuse and the other BE schools hounded them with accusations of desertion and greed (nevermind the fact that SU was almost among them). The identity of the conference as a whole became about the programs left banding together to rebuild the conference from the ground up. The process is still ongoing but the Big East, especially in football, has begun to feel like a close-knit community again. If one of the partners leaves now, it's a betrayal even grander than anything BC, Miami or VT did. It undoes everything accomplished in the last six years and negates anything that was said about Big East pride or fellowship. I don't know just how much that counts for when million-dollar TV contracts are on the line, but it's something.
Now, on paper, if the Big Ten comes calling I think DOC Gross probably already has the U-Haul loaded up. But that doesn't take into account the boosters, alums and other vested parties who would stand up and voice their displeasure with the Orange leaving the Big East. Also not taking into account the opinions of Jim Boeheim and his ilk, which hold a lot of weight around these parts. No way Jim wants this move, he's invested too much of his career and life into Big East basketball. I could see this issue tearing the fabric of the SU sports community and I'm not sure the admins could overpower the alum & fan dissent.
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Football v, Basketball
Obviously football and it’s boat loads of cash drive everything, so this isn’t even a consideration, but the thought of playing Big 10 basketball makes me want to gauge my eyes out.
by Russianator on Dec 15, 2009 1:26 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
It’s nigh-unwatchable. I’d rather plunge my head into a large bowl of rocks and sharp twigs. In fact I keep such a bowl around the house for this very reason.
http://cusecountry.com
by SyraJosh on Dec 15, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Thought
Of settling in to watch a good Syracuse-Wisconsin game makes me want to chug gasoline. Bo Ryan does a good job, but there’s only so much 58-54 basketball a person can take. And that “so much” is zero.
I remember...
Going to the Final Four in 2000 with my best friend from UF. The Wisconsin-Michigan State national semifinal literally put him to sleep.
No thank you.
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by Chris Dobbertean on Dec 17, 2009 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
A few rebuttals
1. Pitt and Cincy do not deliver new markets, PSU and OSU already ensure that those two markets are had.
3. This deal has everything to do with football and nothing to do with anything else. Lax and Bball are absolute nonfactors to the B10.
4. They could easily work around this.
5. Won’t effect anything. We were all set to leave in ACC-gate and Boeheim’s say had no effect then
Syracuse '12
Rebuttal to your rebuttal
Boeheim was absolutely against the ACC move
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigeast/2003-05-14-boeheim-no-acc_x.htm
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
He was completely 100% against it
but we still would’ve left, Jake C didn’t care
Syracuse '12
by blackknight76 on Dec 15, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Have to consider it
It would be nice to play the signature game of the Big Ten/ACC challenge every year.
Let's hope this decision isn't ultimately up to Daryl Gross
If the Doc has his way, we’ll play in the Big Ten for a few years, then jump to the Mountain West, then eventually the Pac-10 which was his goal all along!
http://cusecountry.com
Expansion
There is another reason this is not a great idea. Look at the Big Ten purely from a marketing standpoint, its basically Chicago and that is it. The Big 10 cuts across a swath of land that is basically sick and will not recover for a long time. Syracuse’s future and the future goes east.
sick?
It might help Syracuse to recruit from that sick swath of land. Last time we did we rode a Chicagoan to three straight Big East Championships.
Hypothetically
If the Big Eleven does take, say, Rutgers… who replaces them in the Big East? Preliminary theories (with no research into feasibility, just off the top of my head):
1. Raid C-USA again. I wonder if Memphis would be interested — their football program is generally awful but whoo dog would the hoops be fun! Or there is always the old ‘standby’ of East Carolina.
2. The MAC has 13 teams and could ‘spare’ one. Buffalo? Ohio? Bring back Temple? No currently good teams here but figure out which ones have the resources to make a push for respectability once they have the backing of a BCS conference.
3. Navy, who is generally mentioned as a possible 9th BE football team anyway every time the conversation comes up (and is then shot down)
4. Here is a stretch — bring back Boston College! (The fuckers.) Let the ACC sweat it out for a change. (The fuckers.)
http://cusecountry.com
I’d really hope we’d try to lure a solid school. Memphis and ECU and UCF and a bunch of the CUSA schools are crap academically, and we’re already bogged down with USF LVille and Cincy.
Navy (or Army to a lesser extent) would be awesome…
I think if we’re gonna take a midmajor Tulane is the best fit, private school, they’re our academic peer, bring NO into the fold, and have their moments football/basketball, could get better
I’d take BC back, but we’d have to give them a ton of shit about leaving if they wanted in
Syracuse '12
by blackknight76 on Dec 15, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Turn the Big East
into an all-Eastern Time Zone mega football conference
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
Things I only learned a few days ago...
UCF is now the biggest university in Florida by enrollment and third-biggest in the country.
Having grown up in Florida and realizing the quality of most Florida high school students, this scares me.
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by Chris Dobbertean on Dec 17, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
Memphis
already hired Tranghese as a consultant a few months back. You better believe they’ll be the frontrunner if SUNJ, Pitt, or the ’Cuse goes to the Big Twelven.
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by Chris Dobbertean on Dec 17, 2009 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
If the Big 10 took Pitt
The Big East would die. All rivalry games in the BE would be gone, and the league would lose almost all credibility in the national media (football wise)
Either way we would need to hope and pray it would either be us or Rutgirls.
This would cause a problem for me personally.
My girlfriend went to Ohio State and I’ve had no problem rooting for them, learning about the team and letting our dogs wear their jersey (ugh). But if Syracuse and Ohio State suddenly become rivals…I’m not sure what this will do to our relationship.
St.Louis????
Mizzou is in columbia, almost exactly midway between KC and St.Louis…
I know
I had to pick one though, I assume they somewhat care about Mizzou there. No?
Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician - The Syracuse blog that cares.
More than in KC
That’s definitely Jayhawk country.
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by Chris Dobbertean on Dec 17, 2009 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
If Mizzou leaves...
they would be abandoning the Border War with Kansas. And that would be a travesty, although I’m biased, since I have a LOT of KU alums in my family. Still, they have that contract with Arrowhead Stadium to play the game there the next few years. Wouldn’t it cause complications?
Defending the Cassel since 2009
From a post over at Black Shoe Diaries (the Penn State SBN blog)
There are specific rules about Big 10 admission. A school needs to be a member of the Association of American Universities (AAU) and be in a state that already contains or borders a state with an existing Big 10 team. Given that, the only Division I FBS schools that would even be eligible to join the Big 10 are:
Rutgers
Maryland
Syracuse
Buffalo
Pittsburgh
Missouri
Iowa State
Nebraska
Notre Dame isn’t in the AAU, but you’d guess they’d relax the rules to let them in. Louisville and Cincy aren’t members of the AAU (I doubt they’d relax the rules for either of those schools).
Notre Dame isn’t going to join the Big 10. Nebraska isn’t going to leave the Big 12. Of what’s left, I’d think we’re probably the “best” choice.
I’m not sure, to be honest, what Syracuse should do inthe chance that they were offered the opportunity to join the Big 10. However, one thing missing in your analysis is academics. Conferences are as much about academic partnership as they are about athletic partnership. The Big 10 schools would constitute a large boost, academically, as partners versus what the Big East schools offer. Ad that’s something that’s going to have to factor into the school’s decision if the choice were to have to be made.
Why isn't Pitt a good choice there?
They’re almost/kinda already in the Mid-West so the location rivalry would be easier. Plus, Pitt already has an in-state (if still mostly one-sided) rivalry with Penn State. Most of the Pitt students would kill to have at them once a year.
I could see Nebraska leaving the Big 12...
For the record, before I came to SU I was a Nebraska fan and my father has been a HUGE fan of the Huskers since he was a little tyke growing up in Lincoln. Now, I’m not saying it’s likely, probably not going to happen, but let’s be honest, the Big 12 has not been kind to Nebraska since the days of the Big 8. UNL has been thrown up there in the rather pedestrian Big 12 North, eliminating its traditional and HEATED rivalry with Oklahoma and replacing it with… Colorado. Instead of playing with the big boys like Okie, Texas and company, Nebraska is left up there to hang with Kansas and Iowa State….
It probably won’t happen but I wouldn’t blame Nebraska.
Defending the Cassel since 2009
Short memory
Like someone said, Boeheim hating the ACC move had no effect. It was going to be Syracuse, BC and Miami going to the ACC until Virginia stepped in and demanded Virginia Tech. They then flopped VT and Syracuse to keep the Boston market. If Virginia doesn’t say anything then that move happens and who knows what else.
This is driven by money. Football brings in the most money, end of story. Gross is really going to go for this. I hope it doesn’t happen, but if it does SU will be a big player in the decision process.
I'm glad they kept the Boston market
Otherwise, where would I go to get my rotisserie chicken?
by MrPlow99 on Dec 15, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I loathe Big 10 basketball.
I just cannot imagine Syracuse as part of the Big 10. It just makes so little sense. I hate the idea of this and I hope it never, ever happens. After living in Big10 country for a few years, I saw that people there only get wood for football – basketball is an afterthought. That sucks.
You mean we're not already in the Big Ten?
I could have sworn our football season started with Minnesota, Penn State, and Northwestern…
(Seriously, if invited, we’ll go. It’d be stupid not to, no matter how much more fun Big East basketball is.)
Am I crazy?
….and why is this a bad thing again?
Look, hoops rivalries are great, but unfortunately big-time athletics need to be about (1) Football (2) basketball (3) baseball/lacrosse/hockey/etc – point is, this is about football.
And, as much of a bummer as it is to admit, schools like Georgetown and Villanova, while they’re lovely basketball partners (EFF YOU SCOTTIE REYNOLDS), they bring nothing to the table for football.
Think about this possibility
University of Buffalo.
it is a state school.
Adjacent to PA and OH.
They can play homes games downtown in basketball, Orchard Park for football.
Academics are fine.
If they suck, Indiana, Illinois, and Purdue get more FB wins. More BB wins for Penn St., Northwestern, etc. If they do not suck… so be it.
It’s a reach… but why not???
no fanbase or history whatsoever
Temple would be in the running too if not for the lack of those two key things
Defending the Cassel since 2009
If Maryland gets in the mix...
…I think it’s in, for several reasons:
1. Large land-grant flagship university, and is a member of Association of American Unversities..
2. Gives Big Ten Network more visibility in large, affluent (and growing) Washington market where many Big Ten alums live, as well as Baltimore area. And Maryland sports mean more in D.C.-Baltimore than Rutgers (or SU) does in NYC.
3. Maryland has best all-around athletic program of any of the candidates — including national titles within the past decade in both men’s and women’s basketball (now arguably the second and third most important sports to a big-time conference).
Maryland needs the Big Ten too, for several reasons:
1. It’s enlarged Byrd Stadium, and would find it easier to sell those suites if Penn State, Michigan, Ohio State and Wisconsin were on the home schedule instead of Florida State, Wake Forest, Clemson and Virginia. Big Ten football still has a cachet, though I don’t think it’s that much differently competitvely than the ACC.
2. Joining the Big Ten’s academic conprtium would boost the university’s status in academia.
3. The Big Ten has an “old money” aura the ACC lacks. It’s probably the only conference Maryland would — or should — leave the ACC for.
As a native Syracusan, I’d love to see SU leave the Big East for a real conference (where all members field football teams). And who knows…I’ve heard it’s possible the Big Ten could expand up to 14 teams (in which case a trifecta of Maryland, SU and Rutgers would make perfect sense).
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